Harold Baines.....Lee Smith in Hall of Fame

[weams]

On 12/15/2018 at 6:42 PM, Luke-OH said:

I'm not talking about WAR. Are they overrated by OPS?

He's just being cantankerous again. 

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, weams said:

Guy should have his ballot revoked. If either of those players had been Yankees would have slobbered over them. 

Well I don't know if he should have his ballot revoked (even though I wouldn't complain if he did).  It was just a terribly written article with no logic.

[weams]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well I don't know if he should have his ballot revoked (even though I wouldn't complain if he did).  It was just a terribly written article with no logic.

I'm a punishing angel. 

[Moose Milligan]

 

[Pickles]

The much better comparison to Baines is Markakis imo.

Markakis has an outside chance at 3,000 hits.  He's sitting at 2,237 now.  His time in ATL he's averaged 170+ hits a season.  If someone gives him a two year deal and a starting gig (almost a certainty), and he does Nick Markakis things, he'll go into the offseason after 2020 with 2700 hits.  He'll be 36 years old.  I wonder if you could get a line  on that in Vegas, because I might take it.

If Markakis gets 3,000 hits, and posts WAR #s like Baines (which would be likely in this scenario), mightn't he get in?

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Pickles said:

The much better comparison to Baines is Markakis imo.

Markakis has an outside chance at 3,000 hits.  He's sitting at 2,237 now.  His time in ATL he's averaged 170+ hits a season.  If someone gives him a two year deal and a starting gig (almost a certainty), and he does Nick Markakis things, he'll go into the offseason after 2020 with 2700 hits.  He'll be 36 years old.  I wonder if you could get a line  on that in Vegas, because I might take it.

If Markakis gets 3,000 hits, and posts WAR #s like Baines (which would be likely in this scenario), mightn't he get in?

i think Nick would be the first guy to get 3,000 hits and not make the Hall.  

3 gold gloves, an all star nod, never lead the league in anything outside of games played.  Never considered the best at his position for any stretch.  Remarkably consistent, but not a dominant force.  

I'd love to see him get 3,000 hits though.  

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

i think Nick would be the first guy to get 3,000 hits and not make the Hall.  

3 gold gloves, an all star nod, never lead the league in anything outside of games played.  Never considered the best at his position for any stretch.  Remarkably consistent, but not a dominant force.  

I'd love to see him get 3,000 hits though.  

A few years ago, at the tail end of Johnny Damon's career, there was some angst he might manage 3,000 hits because it would almost deliver him into the Hall, and nobody believed he was a true Hall of Famer.

Many would say the same about Markakis.

But Markakis has those three GGs you mentioned.  And a wide spread reputation as a true professional.

I think he'd get in.  Maybe not by the writers.

[Pickles]

Fun Factoid:

Nick Markakis was 18th in the NL MVP race this year.  The first time in his career he's ever placed.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

A few years ago, at the tail end of Johnny Damon's career, there was some angst he might manage 3,000 hits because it would almost deliver him into the Hall, and nobody believed he was a true Hall of Famer.

Many would say the same about Markakis.

But Markakis has those three GGs you mentioned.  And a wide spread reputation as a true professional.

I think he'd get in.  Maybe not by the writers.

I'm sure his induction speech would be a must see event.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

The much better comparison to Baines is Markakis imo.

Markakis has an outside chance at 3,000 hits.  He's sitting at 2,237 now.  His time in ATL he's averaged 170+ hits a season.  If someone gives him a two year deal and a starting gig (almost a certainty), and he does Nick Markakis things, he'll go into the offseason after 2020 with 2700 hits.  He'll be 36 years old.  I wonder if you could get a line  on that in Vegas, because I might take it.

If Markakis gets 3,000 hits, and posts WAR #s like Baines (which would be likely in this scenario), mightn't he get in?

Your math is off.    Nick will probably be a little shy of 2600 hits in two years, if he plays full time until then.   But if he did make his way to 3000 hits (which would take him at least 5 years), it would be interesting to see what the BBWAA would do.    That milestone has been an automatic ticket for players who didn’t gamble and weren’t under a cloud of PED suspicion.    

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Your math is off.    Nick will probably be a little shy of 2600 hits in two years, if he plays full time until then.   But if he did make his way to 3000 hits (which would take him at least 5 years), it would be interesting to see what the BBWAA would do.    That milestone has been an automatic ticket for players who didn’t gamble and weren’t under a cloud of PED suspicion.    

You're right, and that really decreases his odds.  LOL.  Good thing I didn't make it to Vegas.

And yeah, that's kind of the interesting thing.  Someday someone is going to get 3,000 hits that doesn't scream HOFer.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm not in favor of not voting a player because "well no one can be unanimous, I'm being a curmudgeon," but I don't want Rivera to be the first player at 100%.  I'm being a complete homer here, but if Cal can't be 100%, no one else really deserves to be.  If guys like Mays, Mantle, Aaron can't get 100%, I don't want to see Rivera be the one.  A closer?  C'mon.  It's just cause he was a Yankee.  If he was that good for the Padres, no one would care.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not in favor of not voting a player because "well no one can be unanimous, I'm being a curmudgeon," but I don't want Rivera to be the first player at 100%.  I'm being a complete homer here, but if Cal can't be 100%, no one else really deserves to be.  If guys like Mays, Mantle, Aaron can't get 100%, I don't want to see Rivera be the one.  A closer?  C'mon.  It's just cause he was a Yankee.  If he was that good for the Padres, no one would care.

 

What if Trout continues his current career arc?  Would that be enough to warrant a unanimous vote?

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

One of the reasons I'm rooting for it.  I'd like to see them have to deal with their stupidity when someone who doesn't deserve it crosses that magical 3k threshold.  There'll be a lot of hand wringing.  "Well, I used to think that players without PED suspicions should get in, but now Markakis got 3,000 hits and I'm not sure what to believe anymore...because he's never been a PED guy but..."

Clemens and Bonds could get in this year, both are tracking at about 73%.  If not this year, then next.  

Rivera sitting pretty at 100%. Looks like Edgar and Mussina get in this year, too.  https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!11134&ithint=file,xlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!ACeqm-knNxexBw8

The early public votes tend to be from writers who are more liberal about who they vote in, so I wouldn’t be too sure about Mussina, and I definitely don’t expect Bonds or Clemens to make it this year.   

[Moose Milligan]

47 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What if Trout continues his current career arc?  Would that be enough to warrant a unanimous vote?

Yes.  I'm basically annoyed because it's a Yankee and a closer.  Closers have value, I believe, especially if they're durable.  I just don't want Rivera to be the first to get 100%.   I never said I was rational about this.