Harold Baines.....Lee Smith in Hall of Fame

[weams]

6 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

He's also more likable. Don't underestimate that quality. Bonds and McGwire both rubbed the media wrongs at times during their career. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 minutes ago, weams said:

Unfortunately, I think only Orioles fans remembered this happened today.  Red Sox fans probably laugh about it.  That crazy Big Papi, lol.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Unfortunately, I think only Orioles fans remembered this happened today.  Red Sox fans probably laugh about it.  That crazy Big Papi, lol.

Billy Martin ripped one out of RFK stadium dugout, so funny for us fans to watch.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Unfortunately, I think only Orioles fans remembered this happened today.  Red Sox fans probably laugh about it.  That crazy Big Papi, lol.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

57 minutes ago, weams said:

This is a repudiation of eligibility based on WAR.  Also, had either of these men had blemishes on their personal scoreboard they would not have been chosen by this group.

I see it as a balance to the inevitable induction of more steroid guys. 

It's a repudiation of eligibility based on facts.  By what reasoning does Baines deserve to be in the Hall over 50 or 100 other guys?  Edgar Martinez played in more All Star games, got more MVP votes, won more Silver Sluggers, led the league in more offensive categories, won two more batting titles, scored higher on the black ink and gray ink tests by a mile, has much higher marks on the HOF monitor and standards tests.  The only way Baines beats Edgar is in some counting stats, and that's mostly because the 1980s Mariners kept Edgar in AAA for over 1100 plate apperances where he hit .344.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Also does Mark Belanger get in now?  He is just as deserving if not more depending how you value defense.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Also does Mark Belanger get in now?  He is just as deserving if not more depending how you value defense.

Different committee.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Am I the only one who doesn't like the idea of a Games Committee? If they don't trust the members of the media to vote in the correct players perhaps they should change the system. I will say this. After seeing several writers share their ballots over the years I'm not sure they're any more qualified to vote than the fans are for the All-Star team members. Rene Cardenas, a former announce for the Astros, recently shared his ballot. His picks were:

Berkman
Clemens
Kent
Martinez
Oswalt
Schilling
Vizquel
Walker

Note that he appears to be ok with steroid use (see Clemens), but only for former Astros (no Bonds). Also, Lance Berkman? Seriously? And how can you possibly make an argument for Oswalt over someone like Mussina? 

 

They've had various committees since the dawn of time.  Old Timers committee, Veterans, Negro Leagues, and on and on.  And most of the indefensible selections have come out of these committees.  In the 60s and 70s they put in someone about as good as Ken Singleton or Doug DeCinces constantly.  

In their defense at least they could claim that the records and their access to records were very spotty.  The first modern baseball encyclopedia didn't come out until 1969.  Today they have no such excuse.  All the information is a few clicks away to see that they definitely didn't do their homework, or if they did they simply ignored the facts.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

They've had various committees since the dawn of time.  Old Timers committee, Veterans, Negro Leagues, and on and on.  And most of the indefensible selections have come out of these committees.  In the 60s and 70s they put in someone about as good as Ken Singleton or Doug DeCinces constantly.  

In their defense at least they could claim that the records and their access to records were very spotty.  The first modern baseball encyclopedia didn't come out until 1969.  Today they have no such excuse.  All the information is a few clicks away to see that they definitely didn't do their homework, or if they did they simply ignored the facts.

Or they are doing it intentionally as an attack on the BBWAA.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

They've had various committees since the dawn of time.  Old Timers committee, Veterans, Negro Leagues, and on and on.  And most of the indefensible selections have come out of these committees.  In the 60s and 70s they put in someone about as good as Ken Singleton or Doug DeCinces constantly.  

In their defense at least they could claim that the records and their access to records were very spotty.  The first modern baseball encyclopedia didn't come out until 1969.  Today they have no such excuse.  All the information is a few clicks away to see that they definitely didn't do their homework, or if they did they simply ignored the facts.

Hey Drungo, good to see you here.

I remember my granddad and father complain about whom was in and not in the HOF, and neither usually agreeing.

I see myself and son doing the same thing, decades later.

We have better metric information, but, it doesnt remove the human element out of this.

[tntoriole]

Harold Baines was a gifted baseball player and is a true gentleman. But putting him in the Hall if Fame is a total joke. (He was elected by a 12 man committee today)The highest percentage he received on the typical path to the Hall was 6.1%.(You need 75%)How can he be in? A  DH who hit .289, never hit 30HR, never won a batting crown, had 100 RBI once and only over 90 one other time. Never hit 40 doubles. Never played 150 games after age 29. Had a WAR greater than 3 just twice. Had a career defensive WAR of -19.5. Hit .143 in his only WS AVG HOF RF has a WAR of 72.7! The avg 7 yr peak WAR for HOF RFers is 42.9. His is 21.4.

The Board of Directors of the National Baseball Museum will, no doubt, catch heat over these and future choices. 

https://baseballhall.org/about-the-hall/staff/board-of-directors

Of course, the Museum is privately owned by the Clark family...so I guess Jane could just say no...lol. 

This article is cool, in part because it shares that Jim Palmer and his wife were married at Cooperstown on HOF induction weekend...and Jane Clark was the maid of honor

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/25/sports/baseball/clark-familys-quiet-fame-and-wealthy-legacy-abide-at-cooperstown.html

 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, hoosiers said:

This is generally how I feel and what I want - consistency.

It's not really right for guys in that group to say - That guy was one tough hitter - as a peer.  That's not an appropriate criteria to get into the HOF.  

I get the argument that we shouldn't repeat the mistakes of the past, that the Hall should have higher standards today.  I don't necessarily agree, but I get it.  But then they go right ahead and induct poorly qualified players ahead of players who'd be pushing the standards higher.  

I guess I should just accept that the Hall is a mostly subjective, emotional honor, and that objective (or objective-leaning) measures are only a small consideration.  I'm happy for Harold Baines that he got to be this year's Homecoming King.

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I get the argument that we shouldn't repeat the mistakes of the past, that the Hall should have higher standards today.  I don't necessarily agree, but I get it.  But then they go right ahead and induct poorly qualified players ahead of players who'd be pushing the standards higher.  

I guess I should just accept that the Hall is a mostly subjective, emotional honor, and that objective (or objective-leaning) measures are only a small consideration.  I'm happy for Harold Baines that he got to be this year's Homecoming King.

and guys like Mussina, who deserves to be in, can't get in.

[tntoriole]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I get the argument that we shouldn't repeat the mistakes of the past, that the Hall should have higher standards today.  I don't necessarily agree, but I get it.  But then they go right ahead and induct poorly qualified players ahead of players who'd be pushing the standards higher.  

I guess I should just accept that the Hall is a mostly subjective, emotional honor, and that objective (or objective-leaning) measures are only a small consideration.  I'm happy for Harold Baines that he got to be this year's Homecoming King.

It would be really cool if Harold and Lee both said....”You know what?  We really appreciate the committee doing this, but we do not belong in the same place as Willie Mays and Ernie Banks and Frank Robinson,, so we respectfully decline.” 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, tntoriole said:

It would be really cool if Harold and Lee both said....”You know what?  We really appreciate the committee doing this, but we do not belong in the same place as Willie Mays and Ernie Banks and Frank Robinson,, so we respectfully decline.” 

We have a better chance of Davis retiring at the end of spring training.