The Better Than You Remember Thread

[TonySoprano]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Leo Gomez, better than I remember.  Jon Miller would always say "Lay-oh."

In 1991, he hit 16 homers, I think that led all AL rookies.  .711 OPS

Then in 1992, .782 OPS

Was having a great year in '94, .868 OPS with 15 homers in 84 games.  

Certainly not a stud but had seasons of 2.4, 2.7 and 2.2 wins.  

He was an Angelos favorite, called the owner, Uncle Angelos.  1994, the Orioles brought in Chris Sabo to play 3B; Angelos had other ideas.   (Interesting footnote, Peter hired Regan after he couldn't get LaRussa, talk about missing big time)
 

Quote

In Peter Angelos' eyes, Oates was a faceless man, a baseball manager interchangeable with a dozen or more others. For such money as he was spending -- $173 million for the ballclub, $40 million for free agents last year -- the principal owner of the Orioles figured he was entitled to the best man money could buy, and Oates was just an ordinary guy in a crowd.

The Oates knockers say he couldn't handle the pressure of running a pennant-contender, and his defenders say it wasn't the pennant race so much as the Angelos pressure. Probably both are true, though Angelos thinks Oates was a man tying himself in knots no matter who was running the show.

"I've heard those arguments," Angelos was saying Tuesday evening, when his firing of Oates was saturating the sports pages and the radio talk shows. "He was under a lot of pressure, but it was pressure that pre-dates me. He was in that state of mind.

"I wasn't walking around claiming we were going to win pennants. I gave Johnny a two-year contract. I felt it would show him we had confidence in him. I never sat with him and said, 'I'm expecting this and that.' I never called him into my office until . . ."

Until Chris Sabo and Leo Gomez. Sabo, the big free-agent catch, was playing third base like a man with a bad back, which is precisely what he was. Gomez, hitting well when given a shot, was languishing on the bench. Orders were given: Play Gomez. It was an infuriating and humiliating time for Oates, and maybe everyone should have known right there that the writing was on the wall.

It was certainly in the papers. Angelos was quoted in the Washington Post saying uncomplimentary things about his manager. The remarks were out of context, Angelos said, and he quickly sent a note of apology to Oates. And misspelled his manager's name. You didn't need Dr. Freud to note the symbolism.

A week ago, with Oates waiting out the strike and pondering his fate, it was reported that Angelos wanted to talk to Tony La Russa, manager of the Oakland A's. The story was true, and it effectively finished Oates.

"We wanted to talk to La Russa for some time," Angelos said, "but we didn't want it public. When it leaked out, it was embarrassing. We felt bad for Johnny. We said, we can't subject him to this, and that's why we had to act now. It was very difficult."

Baltimore Sun Sept. 29, 1994  https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-09-29-1994272110-story.html

 

 

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, Palmoripken said:

Good one. One of those solid contributors. Speaking of 3B, I was surprised we let Bobby Bonilla go. But I think I’ve heard he was hard to get along with. 

Bonilla was a cancer, which is why he played for 7 or 8 teams in his career.

It was not uncommon for him to be in clubhouse playing cards, when he wasn't batting.

Bleacher Report even listed him on the top 30 all-time MLB clubhouse cancers, for his ability to wreck team chemisty

 

[ShaneDawg85]

2 minutes ago, Palmoripken said:

I still remember my uncle, bigger baseball fan than I was saying we hired Phil Regan. Didn’t manage before or after that. The performance of the team from 92-94 and 96-97 I think bears to what you’re saying about that team underachieving. And I’ll name a manager here. Johnny Oates. Great guy and a solid manager. His Texas teams always gave us trouble I recall even though our pitching was better. 

I think to a certain extent the '96 team underachieved as well.  Granted they made the playoffs and the Yankees were the better team that year so it's sort of a moot point.  However, they more or less backed their way into the playoffs, I think even some guys who were on the team acknowledged it.  Obviously making the playoffs and coming within 3 games of the WS changes things.  But, on paper I'd say that '95 team was the far better one that should have done so much more.  

[Palmoripken]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

Bonilla was a cancer, which is why he played for 7 or 8 teams in his career.

It was not uncommon for him to be in clubhouse playing cards, when he wasn't batting.

Bleacher Report even listed him on the top 30 all-time MLB clubhouse cancers, for his ability to wreck team chemisty

 

Yeah I guess when you’re 9. You don’t consider personalities and off field baseball. 

[Palmoripken]

Just now, ShaneDawg85 said:

I think to a certain extent the '96 team underachieved as well.  Granted they made the playoffs and the Yankees were the better team that year so it's sort of a moot point.  However, they more or less backed their way into the playoffs, I think even some guys who were on the team acknowledged it.  Obviously making the playoffs and coming within 3 games of the WS changes things.  But, on paper I'd say that '95 team was the far better one that should have done so much more.  

The strange thing is we beat the defending AL champ Indians and then lost to them the next year as the better team. 1997 and 2014 thus are more heartbreaking than 1996 and 2012 to me. But yeah I agree about the 1996. So much power but underachieving on the pitching side for sure.

[glenn__davis]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Eric Davis is another.  I knew he was good but daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn .970 OPS, 28 homers, 29 doubles. .327 batting average.

I think if Eric Davis could have stayed healthy, he'd have been a first ballot HoFer, easily.  

Eric Davis was my favorite player as a kid, dating back to his Reds days.  I was so excited when we got him, but I too don't remember him being THAT good for us.  Maybe the best pure athlete I've seen in the Not Bo Jackson division.  Stinks that he couldn't stay healthy.  This was my favorite card of him as a kid - "Mr. Universe."

[Redskins Rick]

13 minutes ago, Palmoripken said:

Yeah I guess when you’re 9. You don’t consider personalities and off field baseball. 

Nope, you don't, you just admire the way they play ball on the field.

[Palmoripken]

4 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Nope, you don't, you just admire the way they play ball on the field.

Yep. Funny story but we got the dog that became my childhood dog the year Brady Anderson hit 50 homers. Named the dog after him since Ripken in my parents opinion didn’t roll off the tongue. Brady was a FA after that year and I remember we worried a little the Yankees would get him. Turned out to be completely unfounded. You don’t understand the business side of the game nearly as well as a kid which is why 31 year old me has a different opinion on Mussina than 13 year old me did.

[Dipper9]

Great topic.

My poster boy for this is Albert Belle.  Everyone always blasts that signing and its commonly used as an example of why Angelos was against long term high dollar deals, but the fact is his on field statistics were fantastic for the Orioles, and if not for the injury things may have turned out very differently.  

That said, he's still an assclown!  

[Palmoripken]

7 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Eric Davis was my favorite player as a kid, dating back to his Reds days.  I was so excited when we got him, but I too don't remember him being THAT good for us.  Maybe the best pure athlete I've seen in the Not Bo Jackson division.  Stinks that he couldn't stay healthy.  This was my favorite card of him as a kid - "Mr. Universe."

He got diagnosed with colon cancer his first year here. He certainly was a great talent that couldn’t stay healthy. Hope retirement has been good to ED. I enjoyed rooting for him as my grandfather too was a colon cancer survivor.

[now]

Here's an old favorite of mine, at least with perennial hopes pinned to him: Jay Gibbons. He actually had a good year in 2005:

2005	28	BAL	AL	139	518	488	72	135	33	3	26	79	0	0	28	56	.277	.317	.516	.833	118	252	15	1	0	1	3	9

[SurhoffRules]

6 minutes ago, now said:

Here's an old favorite of mine, at least with perennial hopes pinned to him: Jay Gibbons. He actually had a good year in 2005:

2005	28	BAL	AL	139	518	488	72	135	33	3	26	79	0	0	28	56	.277	.317	.516	.833	118	252	15	1	0	1	3	9

Jay could always hit a bit. Middling contact but decent power. For his career he averaged 24 HRs and 32 2Bs per 162. Pretty awful in the field though. Played in 9 different seasons and cleared 15M. Not too shabby a career for a one way player, honestly.

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

Just looking up Tommy Hunter. He flamed out as a starter with us and it felt like he gave up a poop ton of HRs. That's kind of what I remember him for.

But he actually had solid seasons in 2013 and 2014 as a reliever. I even forgot that we got him back for 2016 run, and he was solid then too. 

[jtschrei]

Does Fred Lynn make the list? 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lynnfr01.shtml

Played for us at the end of his career. 4 seasons. WAR: 1.8, 2.6, 1.0, 2.2. 

 

 

[SurhoffRules]

Something I've been mulling going through this thread.  Over the first 10 years of his career Ramon Hernandez was just as valuable as Matt Wieters,  basically on both sides of the plate. He was never as good in Baltimore as he was in his first season with the club but he was still a very good player. Weiters only had one season that was demonstrably more value than Ramons.

Looking at his line, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if Ramon ended up with more WAR. He had a fine career.