Tony's take on the roster

[wildbillhiccup]

18 hours ago, Frobby said:

It says they have a very young team without many established major leaguers.   Among the offensive players you’ve got Davis, Trumbo and Villar as more established than Mancini (I’m not counting Rickard, who has more service time but far fewer at bats and isn’t assured of a roster spot).

The whole “team leader” thing is overblown.  The fact that some players may go to Mancini for advice doesn’t mean that players aren’t going to Davis or whoever.   

So what advice exactly would players seek from Davis? How to chew tobacco? How to not beat the shift? Because they're certainly not asking him how to hit  a baseball. I really don't get the sense that Davis is a leader and he certainly isn't leading by example either. If it was me and I was that terrible and collecting that much money I'd be doing everything I could to try to help the team in anyway I could. Mancini seems like a genuinely good guy, albeit one with a limited skill set. And at 26 years old he seems much more mature than Davis at 32. I'm not sure about you, but if I had a question I'd much rather approach Mancini then a pouting Davis. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, foxfield said:

I do think Davis' time with the Orioles is more contingent upon how he effects the clubhouse than many assume.  

 

By that I mean, if he is positive in the clubhouse, he might have more lattitude regarding his actual performance.  But if he is an issue in the clubhouse, and there is no reason to think he will be, I think he would be dropped like a rock.

Team Leader thing may well be overblown, but I think it is also true that "team" is underrated.  By that I mean a team coming together and being more than the sum of their parts.  This doesn't show up in any analytic stat.  But is a glue or cohesive aspect of every successful office, company or sports team.  And it is not the end all, be all either.  But it's there sometimes more obvious than others.

But I believe the successful teams of the Buck/DD era had it and the team over the last year and a half did not.  I also believe it is the best reason to believe that a team that has no Manny, no Schoop, No Gausman, No O'day, No Jones etc.....will actually be a more successful team than the team that won only 47 games last year.  I do not think the 2019 team will be better than the 2018 team.  I think it will be more successful.

And I am not throwing rocks at the guys above.  They had it and then they lost it.  I don't know why, but they did.  Positive energy isn't going to take the O's to 82 wins this year.  No, they are going to lose 100 +/- a small amount.  But I think positive energy for the rebuild gets them to 55 to 60.  Of course, if it doesn't please refer to the post above by Can_of_Corn.  

2cents, not a cup of coffee or anything, but...

If you read Astroball, you can see what a true team leader does in how Carlos Beltran operated. To me, that kind of team leader is valuable but by how much, can't really say.

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If you read Astroball, you can see what a true team leader does in how Carlos Beltran operated. To me, that kind of team leader is valuable but by how much, can't really say.

I think my comment got misinterpreted (not by you).    I do think it’s important for a team to have players who are leaders.    But I don’t think a team needs to have one prime leader, or a guy who is “the” leader.   So the fact that some rookie may go to Mancini for advice doesn’t mean he can’t also go to other guys.   It doesn’t say to me he is going to Mancini because Davis isn’t a leader.    

To wildbillhiccup’s point, I have no idea if anyone seeks advice from Davis or not.    But the fact that he is no longer a good hitter doesn’t mean he doesn’t know anything that would benefit a younger player.   

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think my comment got misinterpreted (not by you).    I do think it’s important for a team to have players who are leaders.    But I don’t think a team needs to have one prime leader, or a guy who is “the” leader.   So the fact that some rookie may go to Mancini for advice doesn’t mean he can’t also go to other guys.   It doesn’t say to me he is going to Mancini because Davis isn’t a leader.    

To wildbillhiccup’s point, I have no idea if anyone seeks advice from Davis or not.    But the fact that he is no longer a good hitter doesn’t mean he doesn’t know anything that would benefit a younger player.   

Right. Most coaches were terrible players.