Not to be whiny, but can we just cut Richie Martin loose already?

[atomic]

We got JJ Hardy for nothing.  I mean moves need to be made.  Martin isnt close to being an MLB player.  What would his future be if things work out for him? A utility infielder?  

If you want to keep him I am sure the A's would take cash considerations for him.  Nobody would claim him and put him on their active 25. 

[atomic]

9 hours ago, weams said:

Villar is going in a minute.

The new rule is if you belong in the major leagues you aren't going to be on the Orioles.

[FanSince88]

What's interesting and a bit ironic is that shortstop is probably the deepest it's ever been across the MLB today.  

Total OPS for all MLB shortstops is now .770, higher than 2B, CF, and C, only 15 points behind 3B, and only 10 points behind DH (!).  

The silver lining is that there should be a supply of young SS on other teams who are blocked and/or post-hype prospects that would be an upgrade over Martin both short and long term.

I'm thinking about guys like Jorge Mateo on the A's, Myles Straw on the Astros (who's also a CF), or Garrett Hampson on the Rox.  Can we pry away any of these guys with a trade package?  Probably doubtful, but maybe if their teams get desperate enough.  And there should be others hitting the waiver wire who may have more upside and/or a higher floor than Martin.  

Whether or not we keep Martin, makes sense to explore pre-arb, MLB-ready SS from other sources for next season and beyond, while at the same time trying to stock our low minors with high upside talent. 

At this point, only 6 weeks from roster expansion, we probably keep Martin and it's probably the right move.  Atomic's suggestion of kicking the tires on what it would take to persuade the a's to give him up so we can send him to AAA makes sense, but the terms would probably be too demanding for Elias' liking.  

[Enjoy Terror]

20 hours ago, weams said:

Villar is going in a minute.

Looks like it was Peterson who went instead.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Looks like it was Peterson who went instead.

Guy wins batter of the week he thinks he's too good for AAA.

[CheeryO]

Best case scenario is I guess Richie Martin could end up being a poor man's Mark Belanger (if you're old enough to remember Mark Belanger).  But that is probably very unlikely.  Is Richie Martin even that good with the glove?  His DWar for the season is -0.5 according to BR.

The O's have to be better with Villar at SS.  Most appear to think Villar definitely gets traded, at least to get rid of his salary I'm assuming.  I'd like to see Villar stay but with his salary he's probably too expensive to keep him.  I can't see another team giving up a huge amount for Villar, but he does play an important position pretty well.

[24fps]

1 hour ago, CheeryO said:

Best case scenario is I guess Richie Martin could end up being a poor man's Mark Belanger (if you're old enough to remember Mark Belanger).  But that is probably very unlikely.  Is Richie Martin even that good with the glove?  His DWar for the season is -0.5 according to BR.

The O's have to be better with Villar at SS.  Most appear to think Villar definitely gets traded, at least to get rid of his salary I'm assuming.  I'd like to see Villar stay but with his salary he's probably too expensive to keep him.  I can't see another team giving up a huge amount for Villar, but he does play an important position pretty well.

He's no Belanger and nobody's that poor.

[DrungoHazewood]

 

10 hours ago, CheeryO said:

Best case scenario is I guess Richie Martin could end up being a poor man's Mark Belanger (if you're old enough to remember Mark Belanger).  But that is probably very unlikely.  Is Richie Martin even that good with the glove?  His DWar for the season is -0.5 according to BR.

The O's have to be better with Villar at SS.  Most appear to think Villar definitely gets traded, at least to get rid of his salary I'm assuming.  I'd like to see Villar stay but with his salary he's probably too expensive to keep him.  I can't see another team giving up a huge amount for Villar, but he does play an important position pretty well.

Right now Martin hits about as well as Belanger, arguably worse considering context.  But he's about 30-40 runs worse than Belanger with the glove per season.  It's a stretch, but I guess I could see him growing into being an acceptable hitter for a shortstop, say a 70-80 OPS+.  

I see no path for him to make up 30-40 runs on defense a season.  Occasionally you'll see a player go from below-average to excellent with the bat.  Sosa.  Chris Davis.  Hughie Jennings.  Melvin Mora.  But I don't think I know of anyone who ever went from minus glove to a plus-plus glove at a key defensive position.  Or any position, really.  Defense usually peaks the moment a player hits the majors, or maybe before but we just don't see that.

[Ohfan67]

13 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Guy wins batter of the week he thinks he's too good for AAA.

Seems like it. It was obvious, however, that his chance to play with the Orioles again passed. I suspect his agent sees a better opportunity to make it back to the majors with another team. I wish him well. 

[Ohfan67]

Who plays short next year? Another year of waiver wire type acquisitions for SS? 

[canonfaz]

6 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Who plays short next year? Another year of waiver wire type acquisitions for SS? 

More than likely. There's an outside chance that Mason McCoy could win the job with a great spring training IMO though (highly unlikely, put possible).

[DrungoHazewood]

14 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Looks like it was Peterson who went instead.

Good luck to him.  He's a 29-year-old corner utility guy with a .650 OPS in 1200 MLB PAs.  Maybe his agent had a lead on someone who's desperate for a 5th or 6th infielder.

[FanSince88]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

 

Right now Martin hits about as well as Belanger, arguably worse considering context.  But he's about 30-40 runs worse than Belanger with the glove per season.  It's a stretch, but I guess I could see him growing into being an acceptable hitter for a shortstop, say a 70-80 OPS+.  

I see no path for him to make up 30-40 runs on defense a season.  Occasionally you'll see a player go from below-average to excellent with the bat.  Sosa.  Chris Davis.  Hughie Jennings.  Melvin Mora.  But I don't think I know of anyone who ever went from minus glove to a plus-plus glove at a key defensive position.  Or any position, really.  Defense usually peaks the moment a player hits the majors, or maybe before but we just don't see that.

The fact that he has such a minus glove is way more disappointing than his sub-.500 OPS.  I tip my cap to the A's for foreseeing this and leaving him unprotected in the Rule 5.  It might not be too early to say that we could have had better results giving someone else a chance -- perhaps even Drew Jackson.  Super-frustrating when a putative glove-first guy can't even field well.  

[interloper]

8 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

The fact that he has such a minus glove is way more disappointing than his sub-.500 OPS.  I tip my cap to the A's for foreseeing this and leaving him unprotected in the Rule 5.  It might not be too early to say that we could have had better results giving someone else a chance -- perhaps even Drew Jackson.  Super-frustrating when a putative glove-first guy can't even field well.  

I think saying Richie Martin can't field well is pretty hyperbolic. He can field well. He's not fielding as lights out as we'd hoped. 

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, FanSince88 said:

The fact that he has such a minus glove is way more disappointing than his sub-.500 OPS.  I tip my cap to the A's for foreseeing this and leaving him unprotected in the Rule 5.  It might not be too early to say that we could have had better results giving someone else a chance -- perhaps even Drew Jackson.  

Jackson has a .684 OPS in the hitter-friendly PCL, and has struck out 65 times in 208 plate appearances.    

I have to say, the advanced metrics hate Martin’s defense a lot more than my eyes do.    I don’t see him as plus, but I don’t see him as much below average, either.    Certainly not good enough to carry his bat.