Extending Home Grown vs FA

[MemorialStadKid]

What I don't get is this.

Money is money, regardless of whether you spend it on your own homegrown players or FA's. You spend it either way.

I just want to know why the O's never spend the money they'll give to a Markakis, Jones, or Roberts on a FA.

Granted, the money they gave to those players wont land a Hamilton or someone of a superstar caliber, but they seem more likely to lock up their own players vs. spending that same amount of money on FA's.

They need to realize they can do both.

There's a serious disconnect about this subject. After all these years, some folks STILL believe we're a pauper team, with a pauper owner with pauper fans who won't support the team when they contend.

2012 proved that we have the talent, but there are obvious, glaring holes that need to be filled and once again, there's the group saying we can't spend money.

Again.

After the 2012 season.

Sigh.

MSK

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

There's been a lot of talk about how the Orioles have more revenue now, so they should be spending it on free agents. But I think there are at least two ways to spend any additional revenue -- free agents, or locking up our own players.

As has been detailed elsewhere, the Orioles have 14 players who are arbitration-eligible. Some of those are potential core guys: Hammel (FA 2014), Johnson (FA 2015), Wieters (FA 2016), and Davis (FA 2016). Others on the list are solid contributors. You also have Markakis and Hardy potentially being free agents in 2015.

Obviously, you can do some of both -- sign free agents, and lock up some of your own. But we need to consider that our own guys have already started to get more expensive, and will continue to do so, and we will start losing some guys in the next few years if we don't lock them up. For me, I'd like to lock up Wieters and Hammel this offseason, and I'd rather spend my money there than spend it on most of the available free agents.

It's a conundrum this team hasn't had in a while. In the past, you could just assume the Orioles wouldn't have enough "real" talent to actually warrant locking some of these guys up, and thus, there would be lots of payroll flexibility. Now, with the talent we have, there are lots of guys who you will be able to make arguments for locking up in the coming years. This year it's Wieters and Hammel, next season it might be Tillman and Davis, in 2014... who knows, but there are lots of candidates. Of course, Brian Roberts and Markakis will likely be off the books by then, or who knows, maybe you extend Kakes as well. Bottom line is, as these guys get older, they get more expensive, and I think we're going to have a lot more guys earning big money as the years go on. It's really tough to maintain a playoff caliper roster, even if they're under team control, w/o significant payroll increases every season.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Even if our guys arent anywhere near as good? The love affair with our mediocre players is sad.

Your love affair with a 32yr old LF'er who has a drug problem is what's sad.

All I'm saying is, I'd much rather make 2 Adam Jones type extensions, than sign 1 big name FA already past his prime.

[stomperspc]

2012 proved that we have the talent, but there are obvious, glaring holes that need to be filled and once again, there's the group saying we can't spend money.

Again.

After the 2012 season.

Sigh.

MSK

Nobody is saying the Orioles can't spend money. People are saying they need to spend money wisely.

[DrungoHazewood]

Nobody is saying the Orioles can't spend money. People are saying they need to spend money wisely.

There are plenty of people who think spending wisely is akin to giving up.

[MemorialStadKid]

Nobody is saying the Orioles can't spend money. People are saying they need to spend money wisely.

Every single off-season since I've been a member of this community, we have a gang of naysayers who speak out against spending money on FAs.

Every single off-season.

No matter who is available, no matter how badly we need that person, no matter how easily we could afford that FA, there's a gang saying not to spend money on FAs.

Somehow, other teams not named Red Sox or Yankees can open the wallet on a major star (or stars) once every few years.

Detroit did it. Toronto did it. Miami did it last year (stupidly, but they still tried). Anaheim did it.

No matter what the situation is, people here will still say, "it's not a good idea" or "we don't want to mortgage our future on an aging superstar" or "we don't have any money" or "our guys will improve next year, we should wait and see" and on and on and on and on.

It's just amazing to see this stuff after one of the best years in recent Orioles history.

MSK

[Frobby]

There's a serious disconnect about this subject. After all these years, some folks STILL believe we're a pauper team, with a pauper owner with pauper fans who won't support the team when they contend.

2012 proved that we have the talent, but there are obvious, glaring holes that need to be filled and once again, there's the group saying we can't spend money.

Again.

After the 2012 season.

Sigh.

MSK

You do realize that the team went to the playoffs last year? I don't understand the people who recognize that the team made some more money last year because they were a good team that was in the race and made the playoffs, but seem to ignore the part where we were in the race and made the playoffs.

The O's are not, and have never been, a "pauper team." Nor does their payroll suggest that they are.

[MemorialStadKid]

You do realize that the team went to the playoffs last year? I don't understand the people who recognize that the team made some more money last year because they were a good team that was in the race and made the playoffs, but seem to ignore the part where we were in the race and made the playoffs.

The O's are not, and have never been, a "pauper team." Nor does their payroll suggest that they are.

Frobby, that's my point.

WE made it last year because of over-performance, excellent managing, the Red Sox collapsing and the Blue Jays not presenting too much of a major threat. We had some stellar - but unlikely - performances from our bullpen and got extremely lucky with the SPs.

If anyone believes we will reproduce the 2012 season without significant upgrades is being incredibly unrealistic. It feels like people believe that because we contended last year with the ridiculous small-town-invisible-market mentality that infests these conversations is setting themselves up for disappointment. I was VERY happy we made it, I watched like 90% of the games on TV or the internet, I went to a few of the playoff games in OPACY and NYC and I truly love this team.

I just want them to be ACTIVE and stop behaving like we're broke. Is that too much to ask? Does that make me a "troll?"

Again, we got VERY lucky last year. That won't happen twice. We need a Hamilton and at least two TOR starters. Proven guys.

We've got the money to do it. We can do it. Some fans on OH absolutely refuse to for some reason.

MSK

[mark_beckens]

Even if our guys arent anywhere near as good? The love affair with our mediocre players is sad.

So we should let Wieters walk?

[NCRaven]

While the O's revenues are improved, they are not a team that can afford to make a big money mistake on a high risk player. If they Yanks misjudge a player, they can eat his salary and try again with someone else. We can not afford to do that in the same way that teams in NY, Boston and LA can. Hamilton is an extremely high risk acquisition due to age, injury history and past personal issues. I really think adding a young player that is major league ready or has several years of team control remaining through a trade is the way to go for this team.

[Tony-OH]

Frobby, that's my point.

WE made it last year because of over-performance, excellent managing, the Red Sox collapsing and the Blue Jays not presenting too much of a major threat. We had some stellar - but unlikely - performances from our bullpen and got extremely lucky with the SPs.

If anyone believes we will reproduce the 2012 season without significant upgrades is being incredibly unrealistic. It feels like people believe that because we contended last year with the ridiculous small-town-invisible-market mentality that infests these conversations is setting themselves up for disappointment. I was VERY happy we made it, I watched like 90% of the games on TV or the internet, I went to a few of the playoff games in OPACY and NYC and I truly love this team.

I just want them to be ACTIVE and stop behaving like we're broke. Is that too much to ask? Does that make me a "troll?"

Again, we got VERY lucky last year. That won't happen twice. We need a Hamilton and at least two TOR starters. Proven guys.

We've got the money to do it. We can do it. Some fans on OH absolutely refuse to for some reason.

MSK

I don't necessarily disagree with all your points, but I'm interested in knowing who over performed last year? I'm assuming you mean by over performed is a player who had a career year or a player that will most likely not duplicate last season's performance.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Frobby, that's my point.

WE made it last year because of over-performance, excellent managing, the Red Sox collapsing and the Blue Jays not presenting too much of a major threat. We had some stellar - but unlikely - performances from our bullpen and got extremely lucky with the SPs.

If anyone believes we will reproduce the 2012 season without significant upgrades is being incredibly unrealistic. It feels like people believe that because we contended last year with the ridiculous small-town-invisible-market mentality that infests these conversations is setting themselves up for disappointment. I was VERY happy we made it, I watched like 90% of the games on TV or the internet, I went to a few of the playoff games in OPACY and NYC and I truly love this team.

I just want them to be ACTIVE and stop behaving like we're broke. Is that too much to ask? Does that make me a "troll?"

Again, we got VERY lucky last year. That won't happen twice. We need a Hamilton and at least two TOR starters. Proven guys.

We've got the money to do it. We can do it. Some fans on OH absolutely refuse to for some reason.

MSK

How are we behaving like we're broke? We could very well have a top 15 payroll next year. Let me guess, that's not good enough.

[mark_beckens]

I don't necessarily disagree with all your points, but I'm interested in knowing who over performed last year? I'm assuming you mean by over performed is a player who had a career year or a player that will most likely not duplicate last season's performance.

If I was to answer that, I'd say the bullpen as a group. To expect us to have the same 1-run record and extra inning record, is probably unrealistic.

[Aglets]

I don't necessarily disagree with all your points, but I'm interested in knowing who over performed last year? I'm assuming you mean by over performed is a player who had a career year or a player that will most likely not duplicate last season's performance.

I took it to mean the team has a whole 'overperformed.' As in, exceeded Pythagorean expectations, run differential, etc.

[NCRaven]

I don't necessarily disagree with all your points, but I'm interested in knowing who over performed last year? I'm assuming you mean by over performed is a player who had a career year or a player that will most likely not duplicate last season's performance.

The bullpen as a group may have overperformed.

But, very few hitters did with the possible exception of McLouth in his short time in the bigs. None of the starters scream overperformance (and that's with Bundy and Gausman still waiting in the wings).

In fact, a number of players could reasonably be expected to improve on last season. Wieters, Reynolds, Machado, Markakis and Reimold all come to mind.