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Is Sisco Toast?

Aristotelian

By Aristotelian
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Posted by Tony-OH,

While I respect Hyde, I think he was being a little gracious. Sisco's percentiles according to statcast in 2019:  Pop time to 2B: 2.10 (9th percentile) Framing: (7th percentile) MPH: 79.1 MPH (23rd percentile)  Add in that he's not a good tagger at plays on the plate, and his game awareness is below average, and I'm not sure we're looking at a guy who is starting from "average". Can he improve? Sure. How much? Probably not enough to be an everyday catcher in the big leagues unles

Sisco's Statcast grades

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MurphDogg
MurphDogg

I see no reason to make a change at this point. Hope he gets better but it isn't like we need to go out and make a trade for a long term solution at catcher. Give him another year, he and Severino wil

Ruzious
Ruzious

Which is where all-star catcher James McCann was when he was 24 - and actually better than McCann was at 25 - and about the same as all-star catcher JT Realmuto was at 24.  It takes more time for catc

DrungoHazewood
DrungoHazewood

My oblique reference to John Bale was because he was traded for Jayson Werth.  O's first round pick in '97, was a top 50 prospect in all of baseball in 2000.  The O's traded him for that mediocre LOOG

atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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17 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There have been 54 drafts.  Sisco was the #61 overall pick.  He's 13th in MLB games played among #61 overall picks.  He's 18th in rWAR.  

 Among players drafted #58-63 there have been 25 who've ended up with 10+ win careers.  That's out of 324 picks, so that works out to 8%. Roughly 240 of the 324 had zero or fewer rWAR in their entire careers.  And something approaching 50% of the 324 never appeared in the majors.

 The median player taken around Sisco's spot appears briefly in the majors and has a below-replacement career.  So, as I've said before, to be an marginally acceptable draft pick you have to be way above average.  Everyone is disappointed with 80+% of all picks.

Yeah I think people expect too much from the draft.  I tried to find a team that consistently drafted well and they don't seem to exist.   I hear how once Elias gets the drafting going we are going to have good players coming up every year.  And that isn't how it works. If you get one solid guy out of whole draft you are doing well.

You look at the Angels  and they had a great draft the year they drafted Trout but not much since.  Best #1 since then is CJ Cron with something like 6 WAR.  

 

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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2 minutes ago, atomic said:

Yeah I think people expect too much from the draft.  I tried to find a team that consistently drafted well and they don't seem to exist.   I hear how once Elias gets the drafting going we are going to have good players coming up every year.  And that isn't how it works. If you get one solid guy out of whole draft you are doing well.

You look at the Angels  and they had a great draft the year they drafted Trout but not much since.  Best #1 since then is CJ Cron with something like 6 WAR.  

 

Elias did build the Astros, by installing a mechanism to better look at satistics and allow them to draft better.

It worked once, here's hoping he repeats his magic.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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11 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Elias did build the Astros, by installing a mechanism to better look at satistics and allow them to draft better.

It worked once, here's hoping he repeats his magic.

I think you are overrating his drafting.  Look at how few players on the team this year are guys that were drafted when he was there.  Mostly veterans acquired from trades and free agency.  

Look at his 2013 draft.  Nothing there.  Compare it to ours with Mancini, Yaz, Sisco and Harvey. 

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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4 minutes ago, atomic said:

I think you are overrating his drafting.  Look at how few players on the team this year are guys that were drafted when he was there.  Mostly veterans acquired from trades and free agency.  

Look at his 2013 draft.  Nothing there.  Compare it to ours with Mancini, Yaz, Sisco and Harvey. 

So you are in disagreement that the Astros didnt win the WS based on work Elias and his team did for the GM?

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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7 minutes ago, atomic said:

I think you are overrating his drafting.  Look at how few players on the team this year are guys that were drafted when he was there.  Mostly veterans acquired from trades and free agency.  

Look at his 2013 draft.  Nothing there.  Compare it to ours with Mancini, Yaz, Sisco and Harvey. 

Yaz, funny you should mention him.

We let him go, he was not supposed to be able to be a daily COF, and at best maybe a bench COF on a deep team.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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Just now, Redskins Rick said:

So you are in disagreement that the Astros didnt win the WS based on work Elias and his team did for the GM?

Dude, don't even engage with him on this.  It's exhausting and frustrating.  It's been explained to him up and down a million times, yet he keeps banging his head against the wall that Elias was a failure in Houston.  

He's much better on ignore, trust me.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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12 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

So you are in disagreement that the Astros didnt win the WS based on work Elias and his team did for the GM?

They won it by the trades and signings  made by the GM and the players they already had on the roster.  Elias big picks were #1 or #2 overall.  I don't see any team out there even consistently hitting on their first round picks.  If someone is please let me know. 

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Dude, don't even engage with him on this.  It's exhausting and frustrating.  It's been explained to him up and down a million times, yet he keeps banging his head against the wall that Elias was a failure in Houston.  

He's much better on ignore, trust me.

Yeah ignore facts.  Look at the Astros roster.  Most everyone is over 28.  The only starters drafted during Elias time are Bregman and Correa.  Even with pitchers all older guys except Osuna who was traded for when he had off field issues. 

Alvarez was traded for not drafted. 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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56 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Great ref site thanks.

I scrolled through some of the other teams.

Guess, I was out of wrack for expecting more from a 2nd rounder.

Thanks

 

The failure rate on high draft picks is counterintuitive.    It’s damned hard to make it to the majors and have an impact.    

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