Caleb Joseph has an option left

[Redskins Rick]

13 minutes ago, UpstateNYfan said:

IIRC, the minor league coaches had basically given up on CJ at catcher and were playing him in LF and DH more and more. Russell worked hard with him when he came up here.  I could be wrong. BTW, at least spell Sisco correctly.

My apologies, I work daily typing the word Cisco, and its hard to catch myself.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Matt Bennett said:

3. Cumberland getting the at-bats for the Baysox

Speaking of which, is Cumberland a real prospect or just filler?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

My point was not about Caleb being a savior, but Cisco has no D and has trouble making contact.

I think he’s arrived at his level. He did improve his strike out rate, so perhaps he can hit better. He might have success at a different position, but he can’t run, he can’t throw, and at the moment, he can’t hit either. 

Sisco’s .729 OPS was 29 points higher than Joseph ever hit in a season.   He was 24, which is four years younger than Joseph was when he finally reached the majors.   I’ve been disappointed with Sisco’s hitting at the major league level, but he’s a better hitter than Joseph was and has time to improve.   

[Redskins Rick]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sisco’s .729 OPS was 29 points higher than Joseph ever hit in a season.   He was 24, which is four years younger than Joseph was when he finally reached the majors.   I’ve been disappointed with Sisco’s hitting at the major league level, but he’s a better hitter than Joseph was and has time to improve.   

Everything you said, I am in agreement with.

But, my take in this, IMO, when I put together a team, I want a Rick Dempsey strong defense catcher behind the plate, so if that means, you give up the bat some, then so be it.

I wonder if at the end of the day, games saved per season, makes up for it?

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

Everything you said, I am in agreement with.

But, my take in this, IMO, when I put together a team, I want a Rick Dempsey strong defense catcher behind the plate, so if that means, you give up the bat some, then so be it.

I wonder if at the end of the day, games saved per season, makes up for it?

No doubt Caleb was much better on defense.    Hard to say how much difference it makes.   In 2018, the O’s had a 5.00 ERA with Caleb behind the plate, 5.02 for Sisco.   

[BRobinsonfan]

6 hours ago, Aglets said:

I'm a pretty forgiving person by nature, but some things are too beyond the pale, even for me.................. 

Let him rot!  

He's the new Lew Ford.

 

[Tx Oriole]

7 hours ago, wildcard said:

Which could be a attractive feature for the O's.

Caleb will turn 34 on June 18th.   He has been catching major league pitchers for years.  He has major league experience.  Two of his options were used in 2018 and 2019.  He was optioned in 2017 but was not in the minors for 20 days so that one does not count.   

The near future of the O's rotation  will be in Norfolk this year with 6 of the O's starter prospects that could be promoted to the majors by years end.  Having Caleb be there to mentor them could be a good player development move.   And with Caleb able be go up and down to majors as often as the O's desire that could help the O's roster flexibility in case of injury or non performance of Sisco and Severino.

His salary will not be that high as he would probably be on split salary contract.  A high salary for a minor leaguer when he is Norfolk and a low salary for a major leaguer when in the majors.   Overall less than 1 million dollars.     Caleb spend about half the year in the majors and half in the minors last season.   A lot depends on what Caleb can command on the open market and whether he thinks he will see some time in the majors with the O's next season is my guess. 

Last season Caleb earned about half of his 1.2m salary for the time he was in the majors and half his minor league salary for his time in the minors.   Overall maybe 800K.

Caleb could be a fit for the O's.

Hope the O’s don’t sign him. 

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Sisco’s .729 OPS was 29 points higher than Joseph ever hit in a season.   He was 24, which is four years younger than Joseph was when he finally reached the majors.   I’ve been disappointed with Sisco’s hitting at the major league level, but he’s a better hitter than Joseph was and has time to improve.   

Sisco’s Defense is cringingly bad. I’m sure without thinking you can recall three or four plays that were so awful It is embarrassing to remember them. As I said, he raised his walk rate very slightly and improved his strikeouts, but a 30% K rate is hardly laudatory.

As it stands he neither hits nor defends enough. If the Powers want to throw him out there for another year, no harm in that, but the team won’t benefit from his presence. It will be solely to give him reps and see if he can improve.

[Philip]

52 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Hope the O’s don’t sign him. 

Hope they do.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Philip said:

Sisco’s Defense is cringingly bad. I’m sure without thinking you can recall three or four plays that were so awful It is embarrassing to remember them. As I said, he raised his walk rate very slightly and improved his strikeouts, but a 30% K rate is hardly laudatory.

As it stands he neither hits nor defends enough. If the Powers want to throw him out there for another year, no harm in that, but the team won’t benefit from his presence. It will be solely to give him reps and see if he can improve.

If he does improve, doesn’t the team benefit from his presence?

For what it’s worth (very little), the team went 16-29 (.356) in Sisco’s starts behind the plate, slightly better than their overall record.   But I’m not disputing that Sisco is a bad defensive catcher at this point.   

[weams]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

Speaking of which, is Cumberland a real prospect or just filler?

Ask @Luke-OH

[Philip]

34 minutes ago, Frobby said:

If he does improve, doesn’t the team benefit from his presence?

If he does improve of course the team will benefit. But that’s the 64K question.

My own feeling is that he is a known quantity by now, but there’s no reason not to let him play, for his own sake if not for the team’s. His defense didn’t improve. His walk rate improved slightly, his K rate went improved, but he still hit badly enough that he offered no value(-.02 WAR) Severino had the same 94 WRC but had .5 WAR. Given that, a reasonable-on either side of the ball-catcher might be a better choice.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Philip said:

If he does improve of course the team will benefit. But that’s the 64K question.

My own feeling is that he is a known quantity by now, but there’s no reason not to let him play, for his own sake if not for the team’s. His defense didn’t improve. His walk rate improved slightly, his K rate went improved, but he still hit badly enough that he offered no value(-.02 WAR) Severino had the same 94 WRC but had .5 WAR. Given that, a reasonable-on either side of the ball-catcher might be a better choice.

I don’t think we disagree much.    I think he can improve some with the bat.    He can improve defensively but will always be marginal defensively.    He won’t be the starting catcher on the next good Orioles team.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

I don’t think we disagree much.    I think he can improve some with the bat.    He can improve defensively but will always be marginal defensively.    He won’t be the starting catcher on the next good Orioles team.

That's a safe bet.

[Philip]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He won’t be the starting catcher on the next good Orioles team.

I’m not sure he will be the starting catcher on the next bad Orioles team.

Bringing CaJo back adds an intelligent catcher to the fold, and because Caleb managed to make the most of his own skills, he might well be able to help Sisco. Caleb certainly has a future as a coach, and I would be very happy to have him coaching in the oriole system.