Spring SSS: double standard?

[now]

Without citing quotes, my impression from Hyde's comments over the last couple of days is that there's somewhat of a double standard when it comes to assigning value to early showings of the batters vs. the pitchers, particularly in the bullpen (Roch's latest). (And I don't intend any crticism if it's the case... Just thinking out loud).

The other day Hyde was particularly dismissive of things like batting averages at this stage, yet today gushing over the showings of some relievers.

Which brings me to the point: Do you have to give more value to small samples among relievers because that's all you have to go by, compared to other players?  It's always a risky bet with any bullpen arm... but as a manager you have to go with the hot hand and believe in it.

[Can_of_corn]

So he's dismissing poor results from hitters and talking up his pitchers?  Sounds like every manager in spring training.

[foxfield]

I think Hyde has no issue imparting meaning from samples...small or otherwise.  I think the hardest part for a manager working a rebuild is not completely dismissing the utter lack of talent.  What do you expect him to really say here.

 

Well, if we can pitch to our ability and hit to our ability and if I can steer this team to its greatest possible outcome....we will only lose 103 games?

I think he is merely trying to be positive and that is consistent.  The relievers have looked encouraging and the hitters have not.  His spin is not really placing value but looking for positive signs. I think you are right, in that it's a double standard, but I think Hyde has no illusion of the numbers or what they mean.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, now said:

The other day Hyde was particularly dismissive of things like batting averages at this stage, yet today gushing over the showings of some relievers.

I think it's legitimate to dismiss microscopic samples of statistical measures against wildly varying competition, while being happy/disappointed over more subjective things like mechanics, pitch selection or quality, health, attitude, etc.  I didn't read the quotes you're talking about, but was Hyde excited about numbers or more general performance?

[now]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think it's legitimate to dismiss microscopic samples of statistical measures against wildly varying competition, while being happy/disappointed over more subjective things like mechanics, pitch selection or quality, health, attitude, etc.  I didn't read the quotes you're talking about, but was Hyde excited about numbers or more general performance?

Definitely qualitative in both cases, but with the hitters he goes out of his way to dismiss the numbers.  “It’s just such few at-bats that you just can’t go on results at this point for stats with this few at-bats and playing every second or third day, two or three at-bats here and there,” said manager Brandon Hyde. “It’s just not fair to anybody to get a full evaluation based on stats from that sample size."

“I couldn’t tell you want (Hanser) Alberto’s batting average is,” Hyde said. “I thought he took good at-bats (Saturday). I thought Austin Hays took three great at-bats (Friday) in Tampa. I think Richie Martin’s been taking great at-bats all spring, not having any idea what his batting average is.

“I’m looking just at quality of the at-bat, the competitiveness in the at-bat, and have certain guys just get ready for the season and looking like they’re ready to go. If somebody goes out there and hits three balls on the nose today and they’re 0-for-3, I’m pumped about it.”

He really seems mostly wanting to communicate encouragement, which maybe is easier to do on the pitching side of this lopsided game where the arm has at least a 2 to 1 outcome advantage over the bat.

[Oriole1940]

I do not know what the thinking is these days, but it used to be that in at least the first part  of Spring Training it was considered that Pitchers were more ready than hitters,  a broad generalization, because it is up to the hitters, especially the premier hitters. It was also said, only half joking,  that the likes of Musial, Williams, etc. could get out of  a sick bed on Christmas Day and mash the ball.

[Tony-OH]

On 3/12/2020 at 10:08 AM, now said:

Definitely qualitative in both cases, but with the hitters he goes out of his way to dismiss the numbers.  “It’s just such few at-bats that you just can’t go on results at this point for stats with this few at-bats and playing every second or third day, two or three at-bats here and there,” said manager Brandon Hyde. “It’s just not fair to anybody to get a full evaluation based on stats from that sample size."

“I couldn’t tell you want (Hanser) Alberto’s batting average is,” Hyde said. “I thought he took good at-bats (Saturday). I thought Austin Hays took three great at-bats (Friday) in Tampa. I think Richie Martin’s been taking great at-bats all spring, not having any idea what his batting average is.

“I’m looking just at quality of the at-bat, the competitiveness in the at-bat, and have certain guys just get ready for the season and looking like they’re ready to go. If somebody goes out there and hits three balls on the nose today and they’re 0-for-3, I’m pumped about it.”

He really seems mostly wanting to communicate encouragement, which maybe is easier to do on the pitching side of this lopsided game where the arm has at least a 2 to 1 outcome advantage over the bat.

Not sure I understand your concern here? This sounds completely logical. I guy can get a bloop hit and strike out two times and have a .333 average but not look good at the plate vs a guy who hit the ball on the nose three times but right at guys. In the spring, it's way more important to look at how they are doing it vs the results. 

Same goes for the pitchers. I watched a game where Zimmerman gave up three runs yet i was very impressed with his stuff vs watching Brandon Bailey's totally barely average stuff in an early game in which he didn't give up much. 

[now]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Not sure I understand your concern here? This sounds completely logical. I guy can get a bloop hit and strike out two times and have a .333 average but not look good at the plate vs a guy who hit the ball on the nose three times but right at guys. In the spring, it's way more important to look at how they are doing it vs the results. 

Same goes for the pitchers. I watched a game where Zimmerman gave up three runs yet i was very impressed with his stuff vs watching Brandon Bailey's totally barely average stuff in an early game in which he didn't give up much. 

Yeah, it wasn't a concern or criticism in any way, just wondering if there is any difference, in these early evaluations. Especially with relievers, where SSS is the nature of the beast even in full season. Whereas with hitters you have to give them more slack for the long haul.

BTW Tony that's an eye-opening comment of yours about Bailey... Hadn't heard that in the feel-good press! Good to know... less regrets.