How much faith does Elias have in Chris Holt?

[wildcard]

Reading this article on Asa Lacy,  it would seen that he has a lot of talent but will need to change his delivery to find the control needed to make the majors.

https://www.camdenchat.com/2020/6/3/21278323/mlb-draft-2020-asa-lacy-preview-orioles

The video shows Lacy not looking at the plate as he delivers  some of his pitches.   

Elias has shown a lot of faith in Chris Holt in his first year.  He has moved him for minor league pitching coordinator to pitching director that includes the majors and minors.   Some of the O's pitchers have commented on how Holt has helped them.

How much faith do you think Elias  has in Holt?   

The O's have had some excellent pitching coaches in the past.   Bamberger, Miller, Wallace.    Could Holt reach that level of importance to  O's pitching?

 

[Greg Pappas]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

Reading this article on Asa Lacy,  it would seen that he has a lot of talent but will need to change his delivery to find the control needed to make the majors.

https://www.camdenchat.com/2020/6/3/21278323/mlb-draft-2020-asa-lacy-preview-orioles

The video shows Lacy not looking at the plate as he delivers  some of his pitches.   

Elias has shown a lot of faith in Chris Holt in his first year.  He has moved him for minor league pitching coordinator to pitching director that includes the majors and minors.   Some of the O's pitchers have commented on how Holt has helped them.

How much faith do you think Elias  has in Holt?   

The O's have had some excellent pitching coaches in the past.   Bamberger, Miller, Wallace.    Could Holt reach that level of importance to  O's pitching?

 

Elias must have a great deal of faith in him, hence the promotion.  Respected and competent decision makers don't elevate someone to a position of great importance without having the faith in them to do a great job.

[Spl51]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

Reading this article on Asa Lacy,  it would seen that he has a lot of talent but will need to change his delivery to find the control needed to make the majors.

https://www.camdenchat.com/2020/6/3/21278323/mlb-draft-2020-asa-lacy-preview-orioles

The video shows Lacy not looking at the plate as he delivers  some of his pitches.   

Elias has shown a lot of faith in Chris Holt in his first year.  He has moved him for minor league pitching coordinator to pitching director that includes the majors and minors.   Some of the O's pitchers have commented on how Holt has helped them.

How much faith do you think Elias  has in Holt?   

The O's have had some excellent pitching coaches in the past.   Bamberger, Miller, Wallace.    Could Holt reach that level of importance to  O's pitching?

 

I think he has enough faith in him that he doesn't have to give him the top top talent in order to have a system full of promising arms. So far he's been proven right. I think recent history has shown that it's much harder to mold position players than arms.

[BirdinBama]

Still hoping we take Martin, unless Tork is available.

[scOtt]

22 hours ago, Spl51 said:

I think he has enough faith in him that he doesn't have to give him the top top talent in order to have a system full of promising arms. So far he's been proven right. I think recent history has shown that it's much harder to mold position players than arms.

Just wondering about how you see it... Do you think Elias has passed on any promising arms he should have gotten?

[Spl51]

8 hours ago, scOtt said:

Just wondering about how you see it... Do you think Elias has passed on any promising arms he should have gotten?

Just talking about the general trend that analytic teams realize that arms are more risky, so they're ranking gets slightly dinged to compensate for that. He also didn't pick a pitcher until the 8th round last year. Things like on base skills are harder to mold using modern training, places like driveline are much more effective for pitchers.

[ThomasTomasz]

8 hours ago, Spl51 said:

Just talking about the general trend that analytic teams realize that arms are more risky, so they're ranking gets slightly dinged to compensate for that. He also didn't pick a pitcher until the 8th round last year. Things like on base skills are harder to mold using modern training, places like driveline are much more effective for pitchers.

I mean, look at our focus on pitching prospects during our last run and see how that worked out for us.  Bundy had his best year during our competing period in middle relief.  Gausman was up and down.  Rodriguez was traded for Miller, and he would've been solid.  

I think the approach last year was impacted by how thin the organization was up the middle.  We were weak on catching, short stop and potential center fielders, and loaded up on pitching in recent drafts.  I also think the approach of adding veteran starting pitching when position prospects are ready is the better idea.  

Two teams to look at with that.  The 2017 Astros had Keuchel and McCullers as homegrown talents, and Keuchel came from the previous regime.  They traded for Mike Fiers in 2015, acquired and developed Charlie Morton in free agency and traded for Justin Verlander.  The Cubs rebuilt using a majority of pitching prospects.  When they were ready to compete in 2015, they signed Jon Lester to a big contract while they had cheap positional talent.  

With the volatility of pitchers out there, I would rather focus the prospects as far as position players go, and sign pitchers who we know have established track records.  At least a TORP style pitcher.  

[wildcard]

45 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

I mean, look at our focus on pitching prospects during our last run and see how that worked out for us.  Bundy had his best year during our competing period in middle relief.  Gausman was up and down.  Rodriguez was traded for Miller, and he would've been solid.  

I think the approach last year was impacted by how thin the organization was up the middle.  We were weak on catching, short stop and potential center fielders, and loaded up on pitching in recent drafts.  I also think the approach of adding veteran starting pitching when position prospects are ready is the better idea.  

Two teams to look at with that.  The 2017 Astros had Keuchel and McCullers as homegrown talents, and Keuchel came from the previous regime.  They traded for Mike Fiers in 2015, acquired and developed Charlie Morton in free agency and traded for Justin Verlander.  The Cubs rebuilt using a majority of pitching prospects.  When they were ready to compete in 2015, they signed Jon Lester to a big contract while they had cheap positional talent.  

With the volatility of pitchers out there, I would rather focus the prospects as far as position players go, and sign pitchers who we know have established track records.  At least a TORP style pitcher.  

While I understand the history of developing pitching both in Baltimore and elsewhere,  I think its important for the O's to draft and develop pitching more than most teams for several reasons.

1) Baltimore is not the 3th largest market in the country like Chicago or the 4th largest like Houston.  The O's fan base is limited by Washington to the south and Philadelphia to the north.   That limits the amount of revenue they will have for veteran pitching.    It seens unlike that they will spend 6/155m or a Lester type, Verlander or Scherzer. 

2) Not only is there a limit to the funds the O's will have to spend, but also Camden Yard is a place most free agent pitchers will avoid if possible.   Couple the limited funds with the Park and there is double the reasons for quality FA pitching to go elsewhere;

3) Elias know all this.  That is why he has beefed up his player development staff. Boosted his Analytics Department and paid to bring Holt in to lead the development of the pitchers in  the minors and the majors.  There is a lot more pitching development staff than in the past.  Elias is gear up to develop  players and pitchers have lead that development in the last year.

Might the O's add some veteran pitching when they are ready to contend? Sure.   But that its probably  not basis for Elias contention plan.  Developing pitchers is a key part of the plan.  Adding quality pitching prospects is a big part of that plan.   After not adding a pitcher until the 8th round in last years draft and with this years draft being more pitching rich,  I think we will see Elias add pitchers in this draft whether it is the #2, #30, #39 picks after that.

[Redskins Rick]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

While I understand the history of developing pitching both in Baltimore and elsewhere,  I think its important for the O's to draft and develop pitching more than most teams for several reasons.

1) Baltimore is not the 3th largest market in the country like Chicago or the 4th largest like Houston.  The O's fan base is limited by Washington to the south and Philadelphia to the north.   That limits the amount of revenue they will have for veteran pitching.    It seens unlike that they will spend 6/155m or a Lester type, Verlander or Scherzer. 

2) Not only is there a limit to the funds the O's will have to spend, but also Camden Yard is a place most free agent pitchers will avoid if possible.   Couple the limited funds with the Park and there is double the reasons for quality FA pitching to go elsewhere;

3) Elias know all this.  That is why he has beefed up his player development staff. Boosted his Analytics Department and paid to bring Holt in to lead the development of the pitchers in  the minors and the majors.  There is a lot more pitching development staff than in the past.  Elias is gear up to develop  players and pitchers have lead that development in the last year.

Might the O's add some veteran pitching when they are ready to contend? Sure.   But that its probably  not basis for Elias contention plan.  Developing pitchers is a key part of the plan.  Adding quality pitching prospects is a big part of that plan.   After not adding a pitcher until the 8th round in last years draft and with this years draft being more pitching rich,  I think we will see Elias add pitchers in this draft whether it is the #2, #30, #39 picks after that.

Baltimore is mid market team, as the Nationals are.

If the Orioles had a strong team, and was that one piece away, then I see them being bale to add 6/155, hell, they added Davis, didnt they. While it was money foolishly spent, it was spent.

I see Elias wanting to build this team for the long haul, and once they get a solid core going, then spend the money for quality FAs to complete the roster.

IMO

 

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Baltimore is mid market team, as the Nationals are.

If the Orioles had a strong team, and was that one piece away, then I see them being bale to add 6/155, hell, they added Davis, didnt they. While it was money foolishly spent, it was spent.

I see Elias wanting to build this team for the long haul, and once they get a solid core going, then spend the money for quality FAs to complete the roster.

IMO

 

Its will be a  lot easier for the O's to add a quality FA bat than a quality FA pitcher IMO

Nationals market is much bigger than the O's market.  On a normal business day you can't even get to Camden Yards from Northern Virginia for a 7 pm game unless you are willing to spend 2 plus hours in bumper to bumper traffic.  Believe me, I have tried. Its a major deterrent.  And its exhausting.

[Number5]

31 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Baltimore is mid market team, as the Nationals are.

MLB doesn't think so.  The Orioles are awarded a competitive balance pick every year.

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, Number5 said:

MLB doesn't think so.  The Orioles are awarded a competitive balance pick every year.

The competitive balance is based on 2 things, small market or small revenue and I believe based on a formula between the losing percentage and their revenue.

I buy their revenue is down.

They have the 3rd or 4th best Cable TV deal in MLB, so that blows my theory out about revenue is down.

They attendance fell out of the middle of the pack, towards the bottom, because of the quality of the product they had put out on the field.

I think believe, and I could be off my rocker, that is the team was competitive, the stadium attendance would be back.

But, we would have to get all the clowns involved to get back to discussions and have a modified season this year.

 

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

2 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Baltimore is mid market team, as the Nationals are.

If the Orioles had a strong team, and was that one piece away, then I see them being bale to add 6/155, hell, they added Davis, didnt they. While it was money foolishly spent, it was spent.

I see Elias wanting to build this team for the long haul, and once they get a solid core going, then spend the money for quality FAs to complete the roster.

IMO

 

What are you basing this on? The DC Metro area is 6th in the country in population and one of the wealthiest areas in the country.

The Baltimore Metro area is 21st - and that includes Columbia - which the O's probably split with the Nationals as far as fan allegiance. The only smaller markets in MLB are Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Cleveland, and Milwaukee. The Orioles are a small-market team.

[Redskins Rick]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

What are you basing this on? The DC Metro area is 6th in the country in population and one of the wealthiest areas in the country.

The Baltimore Metro area is 21st - and that includes Columbia - which the O's probably split with the Nationals as far as fan allegiance. The only smaller markets in MLB are Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Cleveland, and Milwaukee. The Orioles are a small-market team.

Weathly because of Potomac / Bethesada, doesnt necessary make it a large market.

They have grown, because that what winning things like the WS does. They are now 10th, having jump a bunch of slots.

The Orioles are at 18, have slid down a peg or two, they used to be side by side.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/baltimore-orioles/#3a9676f876db

https://www.forbes.com/teams/washington-nationals/#1ce599874680

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

On 6/5/2020 at 1:14 PM, Redskins Rick said:

Weathly because of Potomac / Bethesada, doesnt necessary make it a large market.

They have grown, because that what winning things like the WS does. They are now 10th, having jump a bunch of slots.

The Orioles are at 18, have slid down a peg or two, they used to be side by side.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/baltimore-orioles/#3a9676f876db

https://www.forbes.com/teams/washington-nationals/#1ce599874680

Rick, you're looking at the Forbes estimated value of the franchise - not the size of their markets. Forbes is famously not very reliable with those things. You're also ignoring Northern Virginia and DC itself as other large, wealthy communities.

There's a huge gap between the Nationals and the Orioles.