Nunez DFA

[Jammer7]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What info does he have that we don’t?  Does he know that Mancini will never get cancer again?  Does he know for sure guys who have been oft injured in their career are all of a sudden going to be healthy?  How would he know those things?

And yes it’s about money..a very small amount of money.  It’s a poor decision.

I do not know what we don’t know...!

He knows what the doctors, experts and Trey are telling him. Do you?

Do you know what guys will be injured? You listen to what your trainers and coaches and scouts tell you. You are right, though, unathletic DH’s do not often get injured. 

He is much closer to the situation. Elias knows the intricate metrics, he knows the player attitude, habits and abilities much better than an outsider or fan knows. I can go on and on, but it won’t matter to you. I think it’s a great decision. 

We can agree to disagree on this one. 

[wildcard]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

I don’t disagree with the philosophy.   But there may be regrets along the way.    I don’t really regret Yaz because literally nobody saw him turning into the player he’s been with the Giants.   You were the guy pushing for him in the 2018-19 offseason and even you were thinking of him as a possible 4th/5th OF kind of in the Joey Rickard mold, not a guy who’d finish 8th in the NL MVP voting.  

Nunez however is a guy who it doesn’t take a ton of imagination to see as a possible .830-.870 guy.   I wouldn’t bet on that outcome, but it wouldn’t surprise me either.   Yaz absolutely shocked me.
 

I think Elias should pick the guys that performs the best.  Mancini has already put up an 899 OPS and Mountcastle just had a 878 OPS.   So dreaming on a possibility of 830-870 for a guy that can't really do anything but DH doesn't really come up to the level needed to compete with those two guys.

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

Paying a guy that makes your team worse as opposed to understanding sunk cost is stupid management.

If it was really sunk cost you might have a case, but it isn't.   The season may be shorten in 2021 for the Virus and in 2022 for a players union strike.  We don't know that either will happen but if they do the O's could save 10s on millions of dollars on the 46m Davis still has to earn.   That is not sunk cost.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

2 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

 

What info does he have that we don’t? 

A lot?

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Jammer7 said:

I do not know what we don’t know...!

He knows what the doctors, experts and Trey are telling him. Do you?

Do you know what guys will be injured? You listen to what your trainers and coaches and scouts tell you. You are right, though, unathletic DH’s do not often get injured. 

He is much closer to the situation. Elias knows the intricate metrics, he knows the player attitude, habits and abilities much better than an outsider or fan knows. I can go on and on, but it won’t matter to you. I think it’s a great decision. 

We can agree to disagree on this one. 

There is NO ONE who can definitively tell you about injuries..and oft injured players don’t usually all of a sudden become never injured players.  
 

Elias doesn’t have that info.  His info is we have guys who can play his role and for less money.  But the less money is so little that it doesn’t matter but the Os are cheap.

[accinfo]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

I understand that last winter we thought that Davis’ 2020 salary of $23 mm was a sunk cost, but it turned out that $14.5 mm of that wasn’t sunk at all, since the season got shortened and we didn’t have to pay him, whereas we would have had to pay him the whole $23 mm if we’d released him over the winter.    The possibility that they won’t play a full season in 2021 is a game-changer when it comes to decisions about Davis.  Think of it this way: every 7 games they don’t play saves $1 mm off Davis’ salary, compared to releasing him and paying the whole thing.  I hope they play all 162 next year, but I’d say the odds of that are 50/50 at best.    Those odds will have changed one way or another by March and I fully expect the O’s to wait until then to make any decisions. 

Yes all of this is true and add in during the last year of his contract there is a strong possibility of a lockout/strike that may again reduce the number of games played.  I hope that isn't the case but it sure looks like right now the two sides are very far apart from agreeing to a collective bargaining deal.

[jerios55]

7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

What info does he have that we don’t?  Does he know that Mancini will never get cancer again?  Does he know for sure guys who have been oft injured in their career are all of a sudden going to be healthy?  How would he know those things?

And yes it’s about money..a very small amount of money.  It’s a poor decision.

He knows how other players played at Bowie and data unrelated to injuries.  Maybe he's happy with the next man up.  There's lots of info we don't know that has nothing to do with injuries and it's silly to only focus on injuries as info we don't know.  Maybe he's traded for 100 SS's because he was tired of our effort to corner the 1B/DH market and the roster that has 1B types being tried at 3B, LF and RF at times.  Maybe he does want a team that can play solid defense all around.

Although he does officially know what Kjerstad had, so that's medical info he knows we don't...  I'm sure there is more that isn't disclosed that can provide more then you assume to be true.

Maybe he thinks he can just get Nunez back cheaper.

All that being said, money is part of it.  Which has cause arguments over Villar and other players too.  This isn't really a shock based on the expectation when Elias was brought in.  It truly blows my mind people are really this worried over Nunez. 

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

He knows how other players played at Bowie and data unrelated to injuries.  Maybe he's happy with the next man up.  There's lots of info we don't know that has nothing to do with injuries and it's silly to only focus on injuries as info we don't know.  Maybe he's traded for 100 SS's because he was tired of our effort to corner the 1B/DH market and the roster that has 1B types being tried at 3B, LF and RF at times.  Maybe he does want a team that can play solid defense all around.

Although he does officially know what Kjerstad had, so that's medical info he knows we don't...  I'm sure there is more that isn't disclosed that can provide more then you assume to be true.

Maybe he thinks he can just get Nunez back cheaper.

All that being said, money is part of it.  Which has cause arguments over Villar and other players too.  This isn't really a shock based on the expectation when Elias was brought in.  It truly blows my mind people are really this worried over Nunez. 

 

The injuries are the issue.  I’m not worried about production from those players IF they are healthy.  

But outside of Mountcastle, I have no faith in any one of those guys to be healthy..at least not enough to give up on Nunez at this point.
 

[Roll Tide]

17 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

What info does he have that we don’t?  Does he know that Mancini will never get cancer again?  Does he know for sure guys who have been oft injured in their career are all of a sudden going to be healthy?  How would he know those things?

And yes it’s about money..a very small amount of money.  It’s a poor decision.

The guy I would’ve DFA would be Ruiz! He’s homerun or nothing. Plus his defense was hit or miss.

[Sports Guy]

15 hours ago, Philip said:

A lot?

He has no more info than you or I when it comes to potential, future injuries.

[jerios55]

10 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

 

The injuries are the issue.  I’m not worried about production from those players IF they are healthy.  

But outside of Mountcastle, I have no faith in any one of those guys to be healthy..at least not enough to give up on Nunez at this point.
 

Health is unpredictable, so even mountcastle could miss.  There is always concern for those things.

If Elias thinks Diaz and Stewart are ready and wants extended looks, he needs at-bats to give.  

Nunez had moments, but I'd rather see other guys that have a long term future here, even if they struggle. 

I agree money was part of it, but Nunez isn't that great when accounting for defense and I think this makes more sense for where this team is in for their rebuild. 

 

[Sports Guy]

24 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

Health is unpredictable, so even mountcastle could miss.  There is always concern for those things.

If Elias thinks Diaz and Stewart are ready and wants extended looks, he needs at-bats to give.  

Nunez had moments, but I'd rather see other guys that have a long term future here, even if they struggle. 

I agree money was part of it, but Nunez isn't that great when accounting for defense and I think this makes more sense for where this team is in for their rebuild. 

 

Ok but you are missing the point.

His defense doesn’t matter.  He’s a DH.

Entering the season, as of right now, this is what you could  have had:

1st- Mancini

LF- Mountcastle

RF- Santander

DH- Nunez

Stewart, who can still start in AAA because of options, could be your back up OFer/platoon DH.

Diaz changes this equation somewhat but he’s not starting the year in Baltimore, at least it’s not likely that he does.  
 

Now, I know Davis is still here but he doesn’t matter and while I guess you could say you are giving everyday at bats to Stewart, I call bs on that.  They didn’t want him facing lefties last year and with his injury history and knowing they don’t have him face lefties, no way anyone can pencil him in to play 6 times a week.

So yes, the at bats are easily there for Nunez to start the year and while some of you may want to gloss over his production, it’s wrong to do so.  Yes, I would like to see more walks although his walk rate isn’t nearly as bad as Santander and you guys practically want to give him a contract extension.  (The love for him on this site makes zero sense to me but whatever)

His power has a place in the game, especially on a team that could use the production and has a spot for him.

So, I’m going back to my original point.  This has zero to do with roster flexibility at this point.  It is 100% driven by money.  Elias is giving you the GM speak that it’s because they have guys who do similar things but that’s bs talk.  It’s all about money.

 

[wildcard]

5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok but you are missing the point.

His defense doesn’t matter.  He’s a DH.

Entering the season, as of right now, this is what you could  have had:

1st- Mancini

LF- Mountcastle

RF- Santander

DH- Nunez

Stewart, who can still start in AAA because of options, could be your back up OFer/platoon DH.

Diaz changes this equation somewhat but he’s not starting the year in Baltimore, at least it’s not likely that he does.  
 

Now, I know Davis is still here but he doesn’t matter and while I guess you could say you are giving everyday at bats to Stewart, I call bs on that.  They didn’t want him facing lefties last year and with his injury history and knowing they don’t have him face lefties, no way anyone can pencil him in to play 6 times a week.

So yes, the at bats are easily there for Nunez to start the year and while some of you may want to gloss over his production, it’s wrong to do so.  Yes, I would like to see more walks although his walk rate isn’t nearly as bad as Santander and you guys practically want to give him a contract extension.  (The love for him on this site makes zero sense to me but whatever)

His power has a place in the game, especially on a team that could use the production and has a spot for him.

So, I’m going back to my original point.  This has zero to do with roster flexibility at this point.  It is 100% driven by money.  Elias is giving you the GM speak that it’s because they have guys who do similar things but that’s bs talk.  It’s all about money.

 

Sounds like your mind is made up and there is no point in discussing it with you.

[Philip]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

The guy I would’ve DFA would be Ruiz! He’s homerun or nothing. Plus his defense was hit or miss.

Dumping one doesn’t prevent dumping the other. I am surprised Ruiz remains, but not at all surprised Nunez is gone. And Ruiz will follow. @Jammer7 mentioned that Ruiz led the team in RBIs, which is true, but a 60- game run means little. I’m happy with a rule 5 3B, a waiver guy, a non-tendered guy, or a returning expatriate guy. It won’t be difficult to duplicate Ruiz’ production and improve on the defense he offered. And he still has an option, so it’s as simple as outfighting him.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Entering the season, as of right now, this is what you could  have had:

1st- Mancini

LF- Mountcastle

RF- Santander

DH- Nunez

Stewart, who can still start in AAA because of options, could be your back up OFer/platoon DH.

Diaz changes this equation somewhat but he’s not starting the year in Baltimore, at least it’s not likely that he does.

Mancini and MC at 1B/DH. Even if Trey is full-speed, you don’t want to depend on him playing 162, so trading off makes excellence sense. This way both bats play and defensive carnage is minimized.

OF= Santander, Hays, Mullins/Stewart, when Diaz comes up, if he doesn’t start the season up, he supplants Mullins and Stewart goes back down.

Thats a far superior defensive alignment, and you’re not wasting a roster spot on a dedicated DH.

And again, the idea that Elias would weaken the team for such a minimal saving is ridiculous.