Nunez DFA

[DrinkinWithFermi]

7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Calling him expensive is pretty funny.

Well, all 30 Major League Baseball front offices agreed with the notion that he was too expensive at his likely arbitration pricetag for the minimal value he offers, so...

[Sports Guy]

3 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Well, all 30 Major League Baseball front offices agreed with the notion that he was too expensive at his likely arbitration pricetag for the minimal value he offers, so...

This is actually incorrect.

As of now, there is no DH in the NL in 2021, so he wouldn’t have a ton of value to teams over there.  If NL teams knew the DH was happening for them in 2021, maybe they would have found a suitor.

And we don’t know that someone won’t pay him 1-2M in 2021.  We just know that no one was willing to trade for him and pay him that money.  Big difference.

In any case, he’s not expensive.  The average MLB salary in 2020 was almost 4.5M.  He would have been paid well under that number.  In fact, with MLB minimum salary close to 600k, he will get paid much closer to the minimum salary than the average salary.  So no, he’s not expensive at all.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

This is actually incorrect.

As of now, there is no DH in the NL in 2021, so he wouldn’t have a ton of value to teams over there.  If NL teams knew the DH was happening for them in 2021, maybe they would have found a suitor.

And we don’t know that someone won’t pay him 1-2M in 2021.  We just know that no one was willing to trade for him and pay him that money.  Big difference.

In any case, he’s not expensive.  The average MLB salary in 2020 was almost 4.5M.  He would have been paid well under that number.  In fact, with MLB minimum salary close to 600k, he will get paid much closer to the minimum salary than the average salary.  So no, he’s not expensive at all.

I agree.    If you let Nunez go, it shouldn’t be primarily because of cost.    Now, if you think you can get equivalent or better production for your roster cheaper, that is okay.  But you don’t make your team worse over $2 mm or less.    

It’s going to be interesting to see what happens with Nunez.    There’s going to be a lot of players on the market after the non-tender deadline I suspect.    I do think he’ll get a major league contract somewhere and will get above the minimum, but it might be less than he was projected to get in arbitration.   
 

[Tony-OH]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:18 AM, RZNJ said:

Your tone of authority when you are clearly in a fog is admirable.  Anyone who thought his arbitration number was a bargain, as you suggest, could have offered a warm body to secure his services before he hit the open market.  What won't make sense is if any team offers him 2M or more now that he's available to any team that wants him.

I'm not going to lie, but that is up there for one of the greatest lines in Hangout history.

[Tony-OH]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:35 PM, Philip said:

Well, nobody wanted to give anything for Nunez, so he cleared waivers. That reinforces that he had zero trade value. So that’s one question settled. And he wasn’t worth 2 million, either.

As a free agent he can sign with anyone for any amount. And several AL teams might be interested. It remains to be seen whether he’ll get a ML contract but  I’m sure he’s going to be playing somewhere next season. All best to him.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 7:46 PM, Jammer7 said:

No team was willing to pay that, so I guess he isn't worth that, not right now anyway.

At the end of the day, you guys are right. The market dictates the value and the market decided he was not worth what he was going to get in arbitration. Whether his previous production and age suggests he SHOULD be worth that, the market decided it was not. 

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

 

At the end of the day, you guys are right. The market dictates the value and the market decided he was not worth what he was going to get in arbitration. Whether his previous production and age suggests he SHOULD be worth that, the market decided it was not. 

I read your comment about Shaw with great interest, I was also wondering why they would get rid of Nunez, and then bring on board someone exactly like Nunez... Who is also older, ha ha.

The most likely reason is that they were hoping that Nunez would improve in certain areas, And he didn’t, and now they’ve gotten someone else and they also hope he’ll improve in certain areas.

[Jammer7]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

 

At the end of the day, you guys are right. The market dictates the value and the market decided he was not worth what he was going to get in arbitration. Whether his previous production and age suggests he SHOULD be worth that, the market decided it was not. 

I agree with that. That is why I wrote, “not right now anyway.” These are different times, but Nunez will likely end up an opportunity. I am not sure that he will get more than a minor league deal with a Spring invite. He’s a flawed player, no doubt, but he can have serious exit velocity when he strikes the ball. Maybe he should go to Japan, where he would mash. 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

I agree with that. That is why I wrote, “not right now anyway.” These are different times, but Nunez will likely end up an opportunity. I am not sure that he will get more than a minor league deal with a Spring invite. He’s a flawed player, no doubt, but he can have serious exit velocity when he strikes the ball. Maybe he should go to Japan, where he would mash. 

Actually he's the perfect guy for the Japanese Leagues. He might hit 80 home runs in Korea!

[jabba72]

Waiver claim was how he got here so its not like we're talking about greatness. Maybe this means Mountcastle is moving to 1B or DH. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

This is actually incorrect.

As of now, there is no DH in the NL in 2021, so he wouldn’t have a ton of value to teams over there.  If NL teams knew the DH was happening for them in 2021, maybe they would have found a suitor.

And we don’t know that someone won’t pay him 1-2M in 2021.  We just know that no one was willing to trade for him and pay him that money.  Big difference.

In any case, he’s not expensive.  The average MLB salary in 2020 was almost 4.5M.  He would have been paid well under that number.  In fact, with MLB minimum salary close to 600k, he will get paid much closer to the minimum salary than the average salary.  So no, he’s not expensive at all.

First off, thank you for admitting that Nunez is incredibly one dimensional and has almost no meaningful value. That's progress, I suppose.

Anyway, the Orioles DFA'd Nunez with the intention to release him if no trade offer materialized from the other 29 MLB clubs, and, lo and behold, no trade offer materialized. Literally any other MLB FO could have added him to their roster for a bag of balls but they all decided that they would rather have the bag of balls than Renato Nunez at his projected $2-4 million dollar price tag. When you consider that he doesn't hit for average, doesn't get on base a lot, strikes out a lot, and can't run or field, it's really not too hard to see why. And that's without even getting into his underlying metrics, which as another poster already pointed out, are also pretty mediocre. His hard and weak contract rates in particular paint a rather gloomy long term outlook, and I am sure that Elias and the other 29 FOs were well aware of those things (and much, much more) too if Joe Schmoe fans like us can access that type of data.

If all 30 MLB FOs and their analytics departments unanimously agree that a player costs more than he is worth, which is exactly what happened in Renato Nunez's case, I'm afraid I'll have to defer to their judgement over some rando with an axe to grind on a fansite's message board. 

6 hours ago, Frobby said:

If you let Nunez go, it shouldn’t be primarily because of cost.    
 

The money certainly was a major factor in Nunez's release, which is more understandable than usual in the dismal current economic landscape where legitimately good players like Brad Hand, Kolten Wong, and Charlie Morton had their reasonably priced options declined by currently contending teams, but roster construction, underlying metrics (as mentioned above), and his general mediocrity were also likely considerations. 
I would personally much rather have the DH spot regularly available for Mancini, Mountcastle, and Stewart depending on the particular needs of the day anyway, but YMMV.

[Sports Guy]

That post screams of someone with terrible reading comprehension skills that doesn’t understand the discussion going on...but hey, carry on and don’t let facts get In the way of your rants.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That post screams of someone with terrible reading comprehension skills that doesn’t understand the discussion going on...but hey, carry on and don’t let facts get In the way of your rants.

I love when someone is so thoroughly defeated, so completely out of ammunition, that they no longer make any attempt whatsoever to provide a meaningful refutation, stop replying directly, and pivot to wildly throwing insults into the void in a big ol' passive aggressive huff.

It happens a lot on the internet but somehow never stops being entertaining 

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I love when someone is so thoroughly defeated, so completely out of ammunition, that they no longer make any attempt whatsoever to provide a meaningful refutation, stop replying directly, and pivot to wildly throwing insults into the void in a big ol' passive aggressive huff.

It happens a lot on the internet but somehow never stops being entertaining 

Lol...you are arguing a point no one is making and yet I’m defeated?  lol. Keep drinking!

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, Philip said:

I read your comment about Shaw with great interest, I was also wondering why they would get rid of Nunez, and then bring on board someone exactly like Nunez... Who is also older, ha ha.

The most likely reason is that they were hoping that Nunez would improve in certain areas, And he didn’t, and now they’ve gotten someone else and they also hope he’ll improve in certain areas.

To be fair to Nunez, he had his best offensive season in 2020.   Whether that would have stuck over 162 games is anyone’s guess.   He’s been a pretty streaky player during his time in Baltimore.    But as I said much earlier in the thread, it would not surprise me too much if Nunez moved his offense up another level.    I think the odds that Shaw turns out to be as good or better than Nunez are quite low. But then, I don’t think they had Shaw in mind when Nunez was DFA.

[Just Regular]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:33 PM, Frobby said:

The average team had a .227/.312/.407 OPS at DH last year.    Nunez has hit .253/.319/.463 for us the last three years, and better than that last year.    So he is a good enough hitter to help some team primarily at DH.

Granted those are the real results, but I would bet teams evaluate DH candidates against a higher replacement (or position average) level baseline.

It's a known known that the DH Penalty is real, yet despite the handful of Cruz/Yordan type guys, most teams cycle their regulars there and deem it a partial rest day.   

Renato's actually a pretty good poster child for this effect, as the slightly positive results and 0-for-30 claimants suggest.

I think to some extent Nunez was the lucky one of a "dozen guys" like him who got the 1000-ish PA's from the recent Orioles.   

Jurickson Profar should totally come here to take the Villar seat and show MLB what he can do with 650+ PA if he wants to take his shot at earning star-level salaries in the future.  He may love and be trusted by Preller going back to adolesence ala Elias/Correa, but the 2021 Padres aren't going to let him hit leadoff 160 times.