White Sox looking for a LH OFer

[Number5]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

See I think you can get that.  You aren’t likely to get a top guy but if you can get 2 guys in the 6-12 range, especially in a deep system, that’s a good return imo.

I wouldn’t trade him for those types of prospects in a poor system though.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  Seems like we would be trading Santander for 2 guys of which we would be hoping that one of them turns out to be as good as Santander, if we're lucky.  Why?  He just turned 26 and is looking good.  I wouldn't be in favor of your proposed trade.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I'm not sure I agree with this.  Seems like we would be trading Santander for 2 guys of which we would be hoping that one of them turns out to be as good as Santander, if we're lucky.  Why?  He just turned 26 and is looking good.  I wouldn't be in favor of your proposed trade.

If you told me I could get a 22 year old Santander with more control and less salary for a 26 y/o Santander with an injury history, I make that deal all day long.

But more than this, anytime you make a trade for prospects, it’s always a risk on whether those players pan out as good as the player you trade.  That’s the nature of the deal.

Bur you make your evaluations on both sides and if you like the players you get, you make the move.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, George Zuverink said:

Someone in Chicago certainly has a yearning for Santander. Anyone familiar with the prospects he discusses?

https://www.southsidesox.com/2020/12/7/22157189/white-sox-keys-to-contention-anthony-santander-and-trevor-bauer

 

The writer is Rob Colletti and I wonder if he's any relation to Ned? If so he can be fleeced!

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

The writer is Rob Colletti and I wonder if he's any relation to Ned? If so he can be fleeced!

He has this to say

 

Quote

Quote

If I were Hahn, I might even include Sánchez, Adolfo or Burger just to make sure Elias says yes. Hell, even if the Sox traded all four for Santander alone, it would be a great exchange and both teams would still win this trade.

Sánchez and Burger both figure to be solid contributors at their positions at best, but have high floors. Worst case, they will both make excellent utility players but will more than likely be everyday players at some point. But Dunning, while showing he still has some work to do, showed the world in 2020 that the hype of being a true front-of-the-rotation pitcher is real. The Orioles need pitching depth that is close to the majors, and Dunning fits the bill perfectly.

So he might be related to Ned Colletti .... LOL

 

So to me Jake Burger doesnt have much value right now as he hasn't played anywhere since 2017. Sanchez is a 1DSL lottery ticket type guy and I dont have much interest in Adolfo.

I think I'd start the conversation with Madrigal and make them tell me no

Then I might settle for Steiver/Dunning, Burger, and Sanchez.

 

 

[Number5]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If you told me I could get a 22 year old Santander with more control and less salary for a 26 y/o Santander with an injury history, I make that deal all day long.

But more than this, anytime you make a trade for prospects, it’s always a risk on whether those players pan out as good as the player you trade.  That’s the nature of the deal.

Bur you make your evaluations on both sides and if you like the players you get, you make the move.

Of course, but if the chances of that were >50%, or even reasonably close to it, the trade wouldn't be available.  Being sure a 22 year old guy that isn't a top prospect will be a Santander isn't likely.  Trade makes no sense to me.  You've got a good young player that is clearly showing evidence that he is panning out.  Trading him for a couple of lottery tickets that may, but probably won't, be as good just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  We disagree on this.  Plain and simple.  I've read numerous other posts of yours that seem to indicate that you are down on Santander, for whatever the reason.  I believe that whatever negative vibe you are feeling about him is clouding your view.  Santander is the type of player that the orioles should be on the look for to acquire, not get rid of, IMO.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Of course, but if the chances of that were >50%, or even reasonably close to it, the trade wouldn't be available.  Being sure a 22 year old guy that isn't a top prospect will be a Santander isn't likely.  Trade makes no sense to me.  You've got a good young player that is clearly showing evidence that he is panning out.  Trading him for a couple of lottery tickets that may, but probably won't, be as good just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  We disagree on this.  Plain and simple.  I've read numerous other posts of yours that seem to indicate that you are down on Santander, for whatever the reason.  I believe that whatever negative vibe you are feeling about him is clouding your view.  Santander is the type of player that the orioles should be on the look for to acquire, not get rid of, IMO.

It’s not that I’m down on Santander..I just feel many of the people on here overrate him.  He’s a good player and he has the upside to be better.  However, he is also injury prone, doesn’t walk and doesn’t hit for that good of an average.  Those things could improve but he’s not without his issues.  
 

Couple with that with the OF depth the team had acquired and Santander’s days are numbered with the team.  It may not be now and it may not be next year but I would bet Elias is hoping Santander isn’t on this team in 2023.  If he is, that likely means higher ceiling (and guys that are younger, cheaper and have more service time) guys haven’t panned out.

[connja]

Dunning is now out of the equation.

 

Righty Dane Dunning is heading to Texas in the return, Jeff Passan of ESPN tweets. The Rangers will also receive a second player, per Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News. It’ll be another young pitcher, according to Mark Feinsand of MLB.com.

[LTO's]

11 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Of course, but if the chances of that were >50%, or even reasonably close to it, the trade wouldn't be available.  Being sure a 22 year old guy that isn't a top prospect will be a Santander isn't likely.  Trade makes no sense to me.  You've got a good young player that is clearly showing evidence that he is panning out.  Trading him for a couple of lottery tickets that may, but probably won't, be as good just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  We disagree on this.  Plain and simple.  I've read numerous other posts of yours that seem to indicate that you are down on Santander, for whatever the reason.  I believe that whatever negative vibe you are feeling about him is clouding your view.  Santander is the type of player that the orioles should be on the look for to acquire, not get rid of, IMO.

I like Tony Taters as much as the next guy but I can't deny that he is still far from a sure thing. There are still pretty glaring questions about his ability to get on base, play good OF defense and stay healthy. If you can get a team to overpay I think you pull the trigger in a heartbeat. That said, it's not going to matter because the White Sox just signed Adam Eaton per Rosenthal.

[Number5]

1 minute ago, LTO's said:

If you can get a team to overpay

Sure, but to me, that isn't two lottery tickets that are unlikely to net you a player as good as the one you are giving up.  I'm not saying Santander is untouchable.  I'm saying it would have to be a really good offer for me to trade a young player that has shown a lot.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

This is wrong.  It’s never too early to trade a player if a good deal is there.

 

It just depends on what that player is worth to you and if you rate the player properly.  
 

Also, with his injury history, nothing is guaranteed when it comes to his potential value.

And btw, traditionally position players fetch more in the offseason than they do at the deadline.

Well duh. “This is a good Deal. We say no” 

Said nobody ever.

The conundrum here is that at the moment it is unlikely that any return would match his value to us. As he gets more valuable to us, the return goes up.

The most importantly point is that even if he doesn’t improve, he still remains valuable to us as our best outfielder.

Therefore, we shouldn’t trade him now.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Philip

[oriole]

And Eaton signs. So there goes that idea

[hoosiers]

Interesting story.  Nice find.  I agree that Santander would the be steady producer with offensive upside and a strong defender with an appropriate cost to fit with the White Sox.  (The Bauer part of the article is interesting, but reads somewhat like message board material rather than a professional writer - let MY team go out and sign the best SP on the market.).

The question is - what would the Os want for him.  I would love to trade Santander for a like-kind major league SP, but the idea of the trade is to help the White Sox without subtracting from their major league roster and, presumably, let them keep their top prospects.  Steiver would be an interesting main piece to the trade - rated the ChiSox #6 prospect by BA entering 2020 after splitting time in Low-A and High A in 2019.  Presumably, he could start at AA and move to AAA quickly and be major league ready somewhat soon.  He would be another quality arm ranked somewhere between Baumann/Kremer and Lowther/Akin IMO.  Best part, of course, is that he is an IU Hoosier, of course.

That seems a solid main part for Santander and there are other pieces parts in the ChiSox system including a HS 3B rated much lower and perhaps some interesting international guys.

Rated just ahead and just behind Santander are two 2019 HS draft picks in Matthew Thompson (second round) and Andrew Dahlquist (3rd round).  Both should be ready for full season ball and might perhaps move from LowA to High A in 2021.  Both would probably be ahead of, and younger than, the college heavy pitching core we have in the lower minors and would be very strong additions to our lower minors.  Those two could make a very interesting haul for Santander though one with no major league benefits for anothter two or three years - or maybe Steiver and Thompson.

Not sure any of these packages get us the upside of Santander if he continues to improve.  Santander currently is something between a solid starting OF and a near All-Star producer.  I agree with the author that Santander's age may have these quaility producing years wasted in Bmore and we do have a good number of OF prospects and it would never hurt to shed payroll.  Santander could and perhaps should be moved in the right deal.

 

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, Philip said:

Well duh. “This is a good Deal. We say no” 

The conundrum here is that at the moment it is unlikely that any return would match his value to us. As he gets more valuable to us, the return goes up.

The most importantly point is that even if he doesn’t improve, he still remains valuable to us as our best outfielder.

Therefore, we shouldn’t trade him now.

It should be obvious that any trade of a player like this that we discuss is always predicated on the return.  Just because you think his value is more to us than the rest of the league doesn’t make it so.  Just as my opinion of it doesn’t matter either.

 

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, oriole said:

And Eaton signs. So there goes that idea

Perhaps...but Santander works for a lot of teams.

[OriolesMagic83]

I think the O's need to hang on to Santander right now.  It seems his value is 2 lottery ticket type players.  I'll take a hard pass on that return.  Santander has proved he is a regular MLB starter.  That has value.  If he stays healthy this coming year and produces anything close to what he did in 2020, say an .850 OPS, his value will be sky high.  The O's can either try to extend him or trade him for a much better return.