NL VP of Scouting : " It’s embarrassing to the sport what they’re doing, or aren’t doing."

[Philip]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Clearly he knew it was his last shot. 
 

I totally got why they/Peter let Cruz walk but if you are smart you know your window is closing. If you want to push it, role the dice with Cruz and add an arm and you are still south of Davis deal. I don’t think Peter operated that way. 

The problem is that they let cruz walk but re-signed Davis. Then they re-signed Trumbo, which was inexplicable the day it was done. They made almost only bad decisions, while trying to keep their window open. And then in 2018 it was almost as if they were deliberately trying to lose. The decisions and the blindness were really that bad.

[Camden_yardbird]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Small market clubs like the Astros and Cubs?

There is a distinct difference between what has to be done and what can be done, sufficiency vs neccessity.

They both broke it all the way down, but plenty of large market teams have reloaded without breaking the club down to its bare bones.  I have yet to see a small market team do that with one notable exception and thats the last rebuild of the rays, and that just because they employ analytics better than just about anyone and didn't try and lose 100 games.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Camden_yardbird said:

There is a distinct difference between what has to be done and what can be done, sufficiency vs neccessity.

They both broke it all the way down, but plenty of large market teams have reloaded without breaking the club down to its bare bones.  I have yet to see a small market team do that with one notable exception and thats the last rebuild of the rays, and that just because they employ analytics better than just about anyone and didn't try and lose 100 games.

 

The Brewers?

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

13 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

There is a distinct difference between what has to be done and what can be done, sufficiency vs neccessity.

They both broke it all the way down, but plenty of large market teams have reloaded without breaking the club down to its bare bones.  I have yet to see a small market team do that with one notable exception and thats the last rebuild of the rays, and that just because they employ analytics better than just about anyone and didn't try and lose 100 games.

 

It's kind of interesting, but if you look at the Orioles top prospects - the list probably looks the same whether Elias comes on or not. Rutschman was the no-brainer #1 with the pick the previous regime fumbled their way into. GrayRod, DL Hall, Ryan Mountcastle, Kremer, Baumann, Akin, Lowther, and Diaz were already here.

Gunnar Henderson, Heston Kjerstad, and Jordan Westburg likely wouldn't be here - but they're just products of really good picks in the draft that probably would have happened anyway.

At the major league level, basically everyone on the team was already here pre-Elias besides Rio Ruiz, Pedro Severino, etc. The rewards for the tanking have been pretty slim so far.

[Can_of_corn]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

It's kind of interesting, but if you look at the Orioles top prospects - the list probably looks the same whether Elias comes on or not. Rutschman was the no-brainer #1 with the pick the previous regime fumbled their way into. GrayRod, DL Hall, Ryan Mountcastle, Kremer, Baumann, Akin, Lowther, and Diaz were already here.

Gunnar Henderson, Heston Kjerstad, and Jordan Westburg likely wouldn't be here - but they're just products of really good picks in the draft that probably would have happened anyway.

At the major league level, basically everyone on the team was already here pre-Elias besides Rio Ruiz, Pedro Severino, etc. The rewards for the tanking have been pretty slim so far.

Even before the various issues that are keeping him off the field I don't think you can say with certainty that Kjerstad was a really good pick at 1-2.  Westburg might be a really good pick, or his contact issues could be real and he flames out quickly.

[Camden_yardbird]

5 hours ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

It's kind of interesting, but if you look at the Orioles top prospects - the list probably looks the same whether Elias comes on or not. Rutschman was the no-brainer #1 with the pick the previous regime fumbled their way into. GrayRod, DL Hall, Ryan Mountcastle, Kremer, Baumann, Akin, Lowther, and Diaz were already here.

Gunnar Henderson, Heston Kjerstad, and Jordan Westburg likely wouldn't be here - but they're just products of really good picks in the draft that probably would have happened anyway.

At the major league level, basically everyone on the team was already here pre-Elias besides Rio Ruiz, Pedro Severino, etc. The rewards for the tanking have been pretty slim so far.

I was going to post this. I think its actually a significant indictment of Elias to be honest.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I was going to post this. I think its actually a significant indictment of Elias to be honest.

Well, I don’t think that’s fair either.

First of all, while those players were there, it’s also possible they wouldn’t have developed as well under the old regime as they have with this regime.
 

Secondly, Elias hasn’t had a ton of time to put his stamp on things.  He was hired late in the offseason prior to the 2019 season. 
 

The narrative that the cupboard was bare when he got here is bs..but it’s also bs to act like what he has done hasn’t helped moves things along either.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, I don’t think that’s fair either.

First of all, while those players were there, it’s also possible they wouldn’t have developed as well under the old regime as they have with this regime.
 

Secondly, Elias hasn’t had a ton of time to put his stamp on things.  He was hired late in the offseason prior to the 2019 season. 
 

The narrative that the cupboard was bare when he got here is bs..but it’s also bs to act like what he has done hasn’t helped moves things along either.  

It's also possible that some players may have developed better under the old regime.

[jabba72]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

It's also possible that some players may have developed better under the old regime.

 I dont think hardly any O's fan would make that trade but it is possible. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

 I dont think hardly any O's fan would make that trade but it is possible. 

It is not as if Dan's group were complete failures when it came to producing ML talent, even if Dan traded a fair bit of it away.

[El_Duderino]

On 3/30/2021 at 9:42 AM, jamesenoch said:

I simply do not post on this site (maybe less than 300 times in 18 years), but I thought this was an interesting quote :

“I know the Orioles are in rebuild mode, but come on. It’s embarrassing to the sport what they’re doing, or aren’t doing. They’re not even signing the better minor league free agents, in my opinion.”—NL vice president of scouting

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/survey-says-19-anonymous-mlb-scouts-executives-offer-2021-predictions/

 

 

 

 

 

I actually agree with this. 
 

I also agree that what Elias is doing is probably for the best long term.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's also possible that some players may have developed better under the old regime.

Sure it’s possible..not as likely but possible nonetheless.

[Moose Milligan]

6 hours ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

 

Gunnar Henderson, Heston Kjerstad, and Jordan Westburg likely wouldn't be here - but they're just products of really good picks in the draft that probably would have happened anyway.

 

I'm not necessarily sure how you arrive at this conclusion.  You're right that Henderson, Kjerstad and Westburg likely wouldn't be here, that's true.  Are you saying that they were picked relatively high in the draft -or in Kjerstad's case, practically at the top of it- and we'd be excited about whoever we picked there anyway?

 

[MCO'sFan]

22 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

What Pirate teams are you talking about?

What Padres teams are you talking about?

Was it the 2019 Padres team that signed Machado a year early and decided against gaming Tatis' service time?

I was referring to the Pirates teams of the years around 2008 - 2013 (IIRC) and yes, the Padres tanked in the 2015 - 2018 when they first took over the team and brought in Preller prior to deciding to splurge on Machado and others. Which proves they were willing to spend money when they deemed themselves ready to compete. They are among several teams to tank during a rebuild. I didn't mention the historic tank job by the Cubs or Marlins. 

[LTO's]

16 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I was going to post this. I think its actually a significant indictment of Elias to be honest.

How exactly is tanking going to produce results at the major league level after only 1 minor league season and less than 1.5 drafts worth of talent acquisition? Also, the team was better in 2019 than 2018 (not saying much) and they were on pace to better than the 2019 team last year. What exactly is the indictment?