Hyde can’t manage this team

[Moose Milligan]

19 minutes ago, Beysbol said:

The Jaguars will when a championship before the Orioles. 

Typical Jaguars fan.  Bro, you edited that post and you still can't tell the difference between "when" and "win."  Are you based out of Jacksonville and sounding out words as your spelling them?  

You just drafted a quarterback that looks like a female pro soccer player and hired a coach who had a cyst on his brain so bad that he just signed his former Heisman winning quarterback who busted hard in the NFL as a tight end.  

 

[Philip]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Whatever.  Tony La Russa would have this roster battling it out for first place.  That much is obvious.

I realize that you’re being sarcastic, but by all accounts, Tony is an excellent manager and an excellent motivator.

I do not think he would mollycoddle anyone, and if the guy plays lousy he gets yanked even if it’s in the middle of the game.

i appreciate that Hyde doesn’t have much to work with, But I do contend that he’s not using what he does have to best ability, and unlike the OP, I have offered examples aplenty.

[LocoChris]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Whatever.  Tony La Russa would have this roster battling it out for first place.  That much is obvious.

Yeah but then we'd have a manager belittling his players for continuing to play baseball in laughers. No thanks!

[LocoChris]

Just now, LocoChris said:

Yeah but then we'd have a manager belittling his players for continuing to play baseball in laughers. No thanks!

Correction: belittling OUR players.

[eddie83]

The pen was good in April. Now they suck. We have one good starter. Would any of the rest be in the rotation of any other AL East team?  How many teams would these guys be starting for? I know guys get hurt and obviously changes are made but there are at 150 MLB starters max at one time Where would they rank?

 

I honestly don’t know whether I would want him to be here when we are good. I don’t know how to judge him strategically. He has basically had nothing to work with. The team quit under Buck in 2018. Things have been ugly at times under Hyde but that was to be expected. 
 

This isn’t like the old days. GM’s run the sport. If the team shows intangible issues that would be a concern. The starting pitching is not good. Play in the AL East and it’s exacerbated. The pen has how many proven commodities? There are some good arms down there but also guys with inconsistent production including a Rule 5 arm. 
 

Major holes at 2nd and 3rd. Team MVP from last year just off the iL. Catching is not good. Top young hitter is struggling which is not an Orioles only issue. Development does not always happen right away without bumps. 
 

Let’s see how the team responds to this terrible stretch.  

[Moose Milligan]

32 minutes ago, Philip said:

I realize that you’re being sarcastic, but by all accounts, Tony is an excellent manager and an excellent motivator.

I do not think he would mollycoddle anyone, and if the guy plays lousy he gets yanked even if it’s in the middle of the game.

i appreciate that Hyde doesn’t have much to work with, But I do contend that he’s not using what he does have to best ability, and unlike the OP, I have offered examples aplenty.

Tony La Russa has been fortunate enough to manage some great teams with some fantastic players.

He managed the 1983 White Sox who the Orioles beat in the playoffs.  That was a good team with good players including the Rookie of the Year (Kittle) and the Cy Young Award winner in the AL (Hoyt, who from a WAR perspective probably wasn't deserving but still put up a good stat line).  It had Hall of Famers Fisk and Baines.  

La Russa was out in '86 after a 26-38 start.  That team was older and not as good.

He then went to the A's where he presided over teams that were loaded (pun intended) and the Cardinals who are always good no matter who the manager is.  Top to bottom, the Cardinals are a consistently well run team.

You've not offered examples aplenty.  You've offered thoughts and opinions after strings Hyde has pulled haven't worked to his favor.  Anyone can second guess a manager after whatever move they've made doesn't work.  

The sad part of it is, is that SG is right...who the manager is doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot.  It doesn't make drastic changes in the standings.  Yanking players in the middle of the game?  That's old school hardball stuff that fans seem to love because it's drama and we think we'd do the same thing because we fantasize about making an example out of a millionaire athlete if we were in the dugout.   Keep that in mind, Phil.  These guys are millionaire athletes who aren't hustling up the first base line, they're not high school freshmen who need a life lesson found through sports.  The whole trope of "I'd play this game for free AND run out every ball like Pete Rose," is tiresome.  

Anyway, back to La Russa and why you're wrong:  Tony La Russa simply didn't become a worse manager between his '83 team and his '86 team.  He was probably the same manager with the same philosophies.  If anything, he should have been a BETTER manager because he'd been in the league longer, seen more, done more and picked up more experience along the way.  He should have been able to coax better performance out a lesser roster in order to keep his team around .500 and keep his job.

 

[Philip]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Tony La Russa has been fortunate enough to manage some great teams with some fantastic players.

He managed the 1983 White Sox who the Orioles beat in the playoffs.  That was a good team with good players including the Rookie of the Year (Kittle) and the Cy Young Award winner in the AL (Hoyt, who from a WAR perspective probably wasn't deserving but still put up a good stat line).  It had Hall of Famers Fisk and Baines.  

La Russa was out in '86 after a 26-38 start.  That team was older and not as good.

He then went to the A's where he presided over teams that were loaded (pun intended) and the Cardinals who are always good no matter who the manager is.  Top to bottom, the Cardinals are a consistently well run team.

You've not offered examples aplenty.  You've offered thoughts and opinions after strings Hyde has pulled haven't worked to his favor.  Anyone can second guess a manager after whatever move they've made doesn't work.  

The sad part of it is, is that SG is right...who the manager is doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot.  It doesn't make drastic changes in the standings.  Yanking players in the middle of the game?  That's old school hardball stuff that fans seem to love because it's drama and we think we'd do the same thing because we think we'd like to make an example out of a millionaire athlete if we were in the dugout.   Keep that in mind, Phil.  These guys are millionaire athletes who aren't hustling up the first base line, they're not high school freshmen who need a life lesson found through sports.  

Anyway, back to La Russa and why you're wrong:  Tony La Russa simply didn't become a worse manager between his '83 team and his '86 team.  He was probably the same manager with the same philosophies.  If anything, he should have been a BETTER manager because he'd been in the league longer, seen more, done more and picked up more experience along the way.  He should have been able to coax better performance out a lesser roster in order to keep his team around .500 and keep his job.

 

I’m not wrong and I’ve given plenty or examples of poor pitching decisions, and continue to do so when they happen.

Tony won a WS against a better team, but Lots of managers could avoid the mistakes Hyde is making. 

A bad team is going to have a bad record, but better in-game decisions and better lineup choices could have made the difference in several games.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

I’m not wrong and I’ve given plenty or examples of poor pitching decisions, and continue to do so when they happen.

Tony won a WS against a better team, but Lots of managers could avoid the mistakes Hyde is making. 

A bad team is going to have a bad record, but better in-game decisions and better lineup choices could have made the difference in several games.

Which poor pitching decisions are your favorite to critique?  Bringing in the underwhelming Plutko instead of the inconsistent Tanner Scott?  Leaving Lopez in for a batter too long instead of bringing in someone like Tyler Wells?  How do you expect to win games when Kremer can't get past the 4th inning and you're looking at options like Travis Lakins to get you through the middle innings?  How do you get to Valdez when you've got a guy like Armstrong?

What lineup choices are blatantly obvious and that could have lead this team to significantly more wins?  Saturday's lineup had on base percentages of .362, .327, .346 in the top 3 spots, those were the three highest on base percentages in the lineup.  Where would you hit those guys instead?  The 4th batter in that lineup, Santander, is a power threat so it makes sense to bat him there even though his on base percentage is ..271.  And then hitting 5th was Severino who isn't great but his on base percentage is .315.  

So Hyde had his 5 highest on base percentage guys occupying the top 5 spots in the lineup.  What would you have done differently?  The lineup scored 9 runs.  

You don't think Hyde, working for a forward thinking, analytical driven guy like Elias isn't looking at optimized lineups and matchups?  What do you think he's doing, just winging it and going by his gut?

You're acting like Hyde is holding this team back and making mistakes that are obvious layups to anyone who's watching.  Look, I get it, everyone likes to come across like they're the smartest guy in the room and act like they can do a better job when it comes to critiquing managers and coaches.  But Phil, as smart and eloquent as you are, you couldn't polish this turd.

[Philip]

Hyde has several problems, but the worst is that he can’t motivate the players. They are complacent, and there’s no apparent remedy. Buck was phoning it in his last year, and the worst thing he said was, “this is what we have.” Hyde is the same. There’s no consequence for playing badly.

It is human nature to give what others are giving. If people around you aren’t giving their best, it is only normal to give less than your own best, regardless of what the propagandists say. Why bother striving, when everyone gets paid the same? Severino is lazy, that’s one of the few things everyone on this board agrees on, and yet, where are the consequences? Yeah yeah yeah, folks say,” we don’t know what Hyde says to him in private” and that is true, but so what? He yells and curses and threatens, and then pencils him into the lineup next day. What could be emptier?

Its possible Mike has said, “suck it up.” In which came Hyde gets a pass, but in that case, Hyde is a paper tiger, and everyone knows it, including Hyde, and he himself is as complacent as the rest, so he should go

The team is lazy. The manager is responsible for that. Nobody ever slacked under Billy Martin. 5’8 and 140, he’d kick your butt and your dad’s too.

It took two years to get rid of Mike Wright and David Hess, and Ruiz stayed way past his expiration date. I’d be happy to send the catchers packing and bring up guys from the minors, and send a message to the others.

If that is impossible, then I wish at least Hyde were willing to call guys out for sloppy play.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

Hyde has several problems, but the worst is that he can’t motivate the players. They are complacent, and there’s no apparent remedy. Buck was phoning it in his last year, and the worst thing he said was, “this is what we have.” Hyde is the same. There’s no consequence for playing badly.

It is human nature to give what others are giving. If people around you aren’t giving their best, it is only normal to give less than your own best, regardless of what the propagandists say. Why bother striving, when everyone gets paid the same? Severino is lazy, that’s one of the few things everyone on this board agrees on, and yet, where are the consequences? Yeah yeah yeah, folks say,” we don’t know what Hyde says to him in private” and that is true, but so what? He yells and curses and threatens, and then pencils him into the lineup next day. What could be emptier?

Its possible Mike has said, “suck it up.” In which came Hyde gets a pass, but in that case, Hyde is a paper tiger, and everyone knows it, including Hyde, and he himself is as complacent as the rest, so he should go

The team is lazy. The manager is responsible for that. Nobody ever slacked under Billy Martin. 5’8 and 140, he’d kick your butt and your dad’s too.

It took two years to get rid of Mike Wright and David Hess, and Ruiz stayed way past his expiration date. I’d be happy to send the catchers packing and bring up guys from the minors, and send a message to the others.

If that is impossible, then I wish at least Hyde were willing to call guys out for sloppy play.

 

[OsEatAlEast]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Typical Jaguars fan.  Bro, you edited that post and you still can't tell the difference between "when" and "win."  Are you based out of Jacksonville and sounding out words as your spelling them?  

You just drafted a quarterback that looks like a female pro soccer player and hired a coach who had a cyst on his brain so bad that he just signed his former Heisman winning quarterback who busted hard in the NFL as a tight end.  

 

Of all the inane! - Doc Adams

[Pushmonkey]

My points is the two failed bunts. Which Hyde said he disagreed with. Who’s giving the signs? Yes there is no other option at SS. Maybe the guy from Colorado? Heck I really don’t know out infield depth is non existent at AAA.  2nd base. Same. 3rd. Yep same. The Bullpen is imploding. Elis might need to do something. Oh yea also Catcher is the worst but we have an answer at least there coming. 

[Explosivo]

57 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Which poor pitching decisions are your favorite to critique?  Bringing in the underwhelming Plutko instead of the inconsistent Tanner Scott?  Leaving Lopez in for a batter too long instead of bringing in someone like Tyler Wells?  How do you expect to win games when Kremer can't get past the 4th inning and you're looking at options like Travis Lakins to get you through the middle innings?  How do you get to Valdez when you've got a guy like Armstrong?

What lineup choices are blatantly obvious and that could have lead this team to significantly more wins?  Saturday's lineup had on base percentages of .362, .327, .346 in the top 3 spots, those were the three highest on base percentages in the lineup.  Where would you hit those guys instead?  The 4th batter in that lineup, Santander, is a power threat so it makes sense to bat him there even though his on base percentage is ..271.  And then hitting 5th was Severino who isn't great but his on base percentage is .315.  

So Hyde had his 5 highest on base percentage guys occupying the top 5 spots in the lineup.  What would you have done differently?  The lineup scored 9 runs.  

You don't think Hyde, working for a forward thinking, analytical driven guy like Elias isn't looking at optimized lineups and matchups?  What do you think he's doing, just winging it and going by his gut?

You're acting like Hyde is holding this team back and making mistakes that are obvious layups to anyone who's watching.  Look, I get it, everyone likes to come across like they're the smartest guy in the room and act like they can do a better job when it comes to critiquing managers and coaches.  But Phil, as smart and eloquent as you are, you couldn't polish this turd.

His name is Philip and Hyde still sucks. In fact, if any one of us was managing this team we’d have either a similar record or better. I strongly believe that. Hyde had Ruiz as our starting second baseman opening day, I mean, let that sink in. Hyde is basically Franco at third, a stopgap for the future. Probably as slow as Franco too. If as Philip suggests that Hyde is at the mercy of Mike’s moves then he really has lost the team. We can see that by him bemoaning Hayes’ bunt today. Who gave the sign? Let’s compare his response to LaRussa’s when his catcher dropped a bomb in junk time on a position player pitcher. Hyde really is a paper tiger. What’s he going to do? Sit Hayes? Yeah right.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Explosivo

[connja]

5 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I think with a better manager this team would only have 10 losses max. 

are you serious?  There is literally less. talent. on this team than maybe any other in baseball.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Explosivo said:

His name is Philip and Hyde still sucks. In fact, if any one of us was managing this team we’d have either a similar record or better. I strongly believe that. Hyde had Ruiz as our starting second baseman opening day, I mean, let that sink in. Hyde is basically Franco at third, a stopgap for the future. Probably as slow as Franco too. If as Philip suggests that Hyde is at the mercy of Mike’s moves then he really has lost the team. We can see that by him bemoaning Hayes’ bunt today. If he really has control of the team, don’t you think that wouldn’t have happened? Let’s compare his response to LaRussa’s when his catcher dropped a bomb in junk time on a position player pitcher. Hyde really is a paper tiger. What’s he going to do? Sit Hayes? Yeah right.

What, are you Phil's dad?  He's a good sport, lighten up, buttercup.

In fact?  Really, how's it a fact that any one of us would have a similar record or better?  In fact, you proved the point that the manager doesn't really matter.  If any one of us was managing this team we'd have either a similar record or better and you strongly believe it.  That means you acknowledge that the roster is absolute crap and whoever's pulling the strings doesn't matter.  At this point you're just arguing about style points and are pitching a hissy fit because you want a manager who loves to make examples out of his players. 

Lost control of the team?  You mean this 17 win juggernaut?  What'd he lose control of, exactly?

Let's compare your response to mine when I remind you that La Russa didn't even know some of the rules of the game:  https://nypost.com/2021/05/06/tony-la-russa-didnt-know-the-rules-and-it-cost-the-white-sox/