Hyde can’t manage this team

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Philip said:

I haven’t read the rest of your comment, which I’m sure is excellent, but I have to jump in here and say, “my gosh what else are they going to say?”

A guy saying something nice about his boss is one of the oldest clichés in human history, it means nothing.

I get that, trust me I do. Most quote from players and managers are fluff. Most players though are not going to outright lie about their manager if they don't like him. they are not going to speak glowingly of him but would probably be more vanilla if you get my point. It's tough to know because I judged a lot off mannerisms when I talked to guys after the official interviews. Can't do that now.

 

[Philip]

47 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 Yeah @wildcard these are questions I’d like to be answered. If Holt is a true wizard why are these guys struggling?  Kremer is a bag of suck, especially. Tanner Scott is Rick Vaughn Jr. 

I’m not saying Holt is bad, I’m not saying he’s fantastic either. But it’s not like the majority of the arms we have up right now are improving under his tutelage. 

Even the best coach or teacher can only shape the clay he has been given. It is impossible to make someone great unless they have greatness within them, and that’s not a cliché, it’s quite true. It is impossible to make somebody some thing they are not(The Lord can, we’re not talking about spiritual transformation, but this is Baseball.)

The greatest coach can get you closer to your potential than anybody else.

Scott Is wild. He’s just wild. He’s always going to be wild and then periodically not wild, and then wild again. I do not know what the top of his potential is, but I am assuming after all the time that has been spent with him that it is going to be something like 60-80% not wild and 20-40% wild, and whoever has him is going to have to live with that patch of wild, which will always be random and will always be awful. And the greatest coach who ever lived will be able to minimize his wild times, unless there is a Fix in him somewhere that can turn down the wild So that we see it very rarely.
In order to know the limits of the coach, one must also know the limits of the player, and no one can, so with that in mind, a great coach will make some guys better because he finds the Fix, And he won’t touch others because he can’t find the Fix Or because they reject it for some reason.

So you can’t judge any coach by his alleged successes or his alleged failures

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I get that, trust me I do. Most quote from players and managers are fluff. Most players though are not going to outright lie about their manager if they don't like him. they are not going to speak glowingly of him but would probably be more vanilla if you get my point. It's tough to know because I judged a lot off mannerisms when I talked to guys after the official interviews. Can't do that now.

 

They also don't usually play hard for someone they don't like/respect.

[LTO's]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

 Yeah @wildcard these are questions I’d like to be answered. If Holt is a true wizard why are these guys struggling?  Kremer is a bag of suck, especially. Tanner Scott is Rick Vaughn Jr. 

I’m not saying Holt is bad, I’m not saying he’s fantastic either. But it’s not like the majority of the arms we have up right now are improving under his tutelage. 

Scott has largely been good this year. His K/9 and FIP are better so far this year than last. I don’t think Akin is struggling either. Kremer is the only one that I am slightly disappointed by but I think you’d be pretty hard pressed to find anyone outside of OH that thought he was capable of much more than an average back end starter. It’s not like him struggling is all that surprising. I think if you look at the whole picture, Holt is doing a good job. I wouldn’t say he’s a miracle worker or anything though. Many of the pitchers on the roster are very much not good and they are pitching like it. Hopefully the influx of actual high ceiling guys comes soon and we can get a better understanding of the job he’s doing at the ML level..

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

5 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Scott has largely been good this year. His K/9 and FIP are better so far this year than last. I don’t think Akin is struggling either. Kremer is the only one that I am slightly disappointed by but I think you’d be pretty hard pressed to find anyone outside of OH that thought he was capable of much more than an average back end starter. It’s not like him struggling is all that surprising. I think if you look at the whole picture, Holt is doing a good job. I wouldn’t say he’s a miracle worker or anything though. Many of the pitchers on the roster are very much not good and they are pitching like it. Hopefully the influx of actual high ceiling guys comes soon and we can get a better understanding of the job he’s doing at the ML level..

But Scott's walks and WHIP are way up this season with his walk rate at 7.3 BB/9. If Scott can get his wildness under control, then he can turn into a dependable late innings pitcher. It's a long season, so this could just be bad stretch for Scott giving up bases on balls. Another good thing is Scott has only given up one home run so far in 23.1 innings pitched. 

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

 Yeah @wildcard these are questions I’d like to be answered. If Holt is a true wizard why are these guys struggling?  Kremer is a bag of suck, especially. Tanner Scott is Rick Vaughn Jr. 

I’m not saying Holt is bad, I’m not saying he’s fantastic either. But it’s not like the majority of the arms we have up right now are improving under his tutelage. 

As far as I can tell Holt left on May 17th and return on the May 31.  Same time as the losing streak.    I think you will find that the team did better with him then without him.  I am not in a position to do the math right now but a quick glance shows the Scott had a 2.16 ERA before he left and it went to 3.38 ERA by the time he came back.   I think many of the young pitchers did progress under him.   Kremer had a tough April but had three good starts in May before Holt left.  The only time Zimmerman gave up more than 3 runs in a start was while Holt was gone.   I may look into it further when I have time but I think you will find the overall the young pitchers did better with him than without him.

[Frobby]

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2021/06/message-received-from-clubhouse-meeting-motivating-orioles.html

“I think he’s done an incredible job,” Mancini said. “He was tasked with leading a really inexperienced team and we’re still pretty inexperienced, I’d say. We’re a little more experienced than two years ago in some sense, but at the same time whenever you’re going through a full rebuild like we are and we really started from the ground up after 2018, it’s a completely different team now. So it’s a tough job, but I think Hyder has navigated it extremely well.

“He comes to the park every day and he’s the same guy. All he ever asks of us is to play hard and the guys play for him, love competing for him and playing for him, and I think that’s a sign of a great manager. Certainly every day he has the respect of our team and we want to play well for him.”

I agree with Tony.   Nobody’s going to badmouth a manager in public, but Mancini is going out of his way to say highly complimentary things about him.   He didn’t have to go nearly that far if he didn’t feel that way.   

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2021/06/message-received-from-clubhouse-meeting-motivating-orioles.html

“I think he’s done an incredible job,” Mancini said. “He was tasked with leading a really inexperienced team and we’re still pretty inexperienced, I’d say. We’re a little more experienced than two years ago in some sense, but at the same time whenever you’re going through a full rebuild like we are and we really started from the ground up after 2018, it’s a completely different team now. So it’s a tough job, but I think Hyder has navigated it extremely well.

“He comes to the park every day and he’s the same guy. All he ever asks of us is to play hard and the guys play for him, love competing for him and playing for him, and I think that’s a sign of a great manager. Certainly every day he has the respect of our team and we want to play well for him.”

I agree with Tony.   Nobody’s going to badmouth a manager in public, but Mancini is going out of his way to say highly complimentary things about him.   He didn’t have to go nearly that far if he didn’t feel that way.   

Come on Frobby, that means nothing.  But multiple message board posters who know don’t know the difference between Mama Mancini and Trey Mancini know all!

[Philip]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

They also don't usually play hard for someone they don't like/respect.

You are at least half right, but continuing my musical example, I can name several orchestras, most, in fact, where the musicians hated their conductor yet played their hearts out for him. They don’t have to like him, it might even be better if they don’t, although genuine love can also be a great motivator.

But I’ll grant the respect bit. you don’t respect your boss, forget it. And regardless of what they say on camera, that remains an open inquiry.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Philip said:

You are at least half right, but continuing my musical example, I can name several orchestras, most, in fact, where the musicians hated their conductor yet played their hearts out for him. They don’t have to like him, it might even be better if they don’t, although genuine love can also be a great motivator.

But I’ll grant the respect bit. you don’t respect your boss, forget it. And regardless of what they say on camera, that remains an open inquiry.

I don’t think Earl Weaver’s players liked him much.   

[Philip]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think Earl Weaver’s players liked him much.   

That reinforces my point. And at the moment I’m not sure Tony La Russa’s guys invite him over for dinner every night either

[foxfield]

10 minutes ago, Philip said:

You are at least half right, but continuing my musical example, I can name several orchestras, most, in fact, where the musicians hated their conductor yet played their hearts out for him. They don’t have to like him, it might even be better if they don’t, although genuine love can also be a great motivator.

But I’ll grant the respect bit. you don’t respect your boss, forget it. And regardless of what they say on camera, that remains an open inquiry.

Actually you have been saying this for awhile. And in fact it’s really not an open question. You say it’s a question. But the team, not just in words, but in actions, continue to play hard even when they don’t play well. 
 

It is fine to not like Hyde and many continue to bend over backwards to say that he may not be a good manager. But that has nothing been proven. But you consistently say he is a poor motivator  and the facts say otherwise.