ESPN: 1 player every team should trade or trade for

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 hour ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Dan Duquette rode Andy MacPhail's coattails to success.

OMG, this is not true and comical. AM was clearly a very very good trader, that’s it. His FA agent signings were atrocious, not any of Elias’ rebuild of player development or scouting. AM is a one-trick pony. Great guy, but DD (while also flawed) worked hard during his tenure and deserves credit.

Edited June 22, 2021 by NelsonCruuuuuz

[7Mo]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You overrate Mancini and his overall worth.  
 

You also just don’t seem to understand that you can replace production in other areas and have a much better overall team.

Not unlike what I just read in a Rays article:

Hill was one of several pitchers Tampa Bay added this winter in the wake of another ruthless decision — declining a $15 million option on beloved pitcher Charlie Morton. Tampa Bay spread Morton’s money across a collection of arms: Hill ($1.5 million), Archer ($6.5 million) Michael Wacha ($3 million), Collin McHugh ($1.8 million), Chaz Roe ($1.15 million) and Oliver Drake ($775,000).

The idea was to reduce the risk in spending. Wacha (4.54 ERA) has been mediocre. Archer, Drake and Roe are all on the 60-day injured list. But McHugh, at 34, is striking out batters at the best rate of his career as a multi-inning reliever, while Hill entered this week with a 3.64 ERA in 71.2 innings, more than comparable to the 4.03 ERA in 73 2/3 innings Morton has posted with Atlanta.

[spiritof66]

18 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Yeah, his objective wasn’t to set us up for the future. It seemed to be to squeeze every last drop of contention out of that core group. Of course Ubaldo and Gallardo signings were terrible. Parra trade was a joke. But he is the only GM who was able to actually win. And it wasn’t happening with Andy still in the role. 

Where do you think that objective might have come from? Do you think it may have had anything to do with the guy he reported to, who was nearing the end of decades of ownership without ever having a team that reached, let alone won, a World Series? You know, the guy who thought that keeping that core group together, adding a few veteran pitchers and keeping Chris Davis around to hit HRs for another decade would enable the team to remain competitive, at the same time refusing to spend money on an international program that might have been producing productive talent by now. I think that might have been a factor.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Vavra has a chance to be a high OBP and an average defensive 2B next season.  Grenier already is a major league caliber defensive SS.  Have to wait on the 2nd half to see if his offense is ready.  Dorrian has power at 3B. He is probably better than Franco.  Whoever is not ready by next season Elias has to supplement with FA.

Curious what caused Grenier to start hitting…he looked lost at the plate and then all of the sudden…I would absolutely love to see Buck Britton manage the Os at some point, class act and great manager/mentor/coach.

[Sports Guy]

43 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

Not unlike what I just read in a Rays article:

Hill was one of several pitchers Tampa Bay added this winter in the wake of another ruthless decision — declining a $15 million option on beloved pitcher Charlie Morton. Tampa Bay spread Morton’s money across a collection of arms: Hill ($1.5 million), Archer ($6.5 million) Michael Wacha ($3 million), Collin McHugh ($1.8 million), Chaz Roe ($1.15 million) and Oliver Drake ($775,000).

The idea was to reduce the risk in spending. Wacha (4.54 ERA) has been mediocre. Archer, Drake and Roe are all on the 60-day injured list. But McHugh, at 34, is striking out batters at the best rate of his career as a multi-inning reliever, while Hill entered this week with a 3.64 ERA in 71.2 innings, more than comparable to the 4.03 ERA in 73 2/3 innings Morton has posted with Atlanta.

Exactly…now, as this article says, some of those moves haven’t worked out but they are well reasoned moves and it’s just them showing that there are a lot of ways to build a team.

Wildcard is basically saying, you can only build a team one way.  That’s wrong.

[osravensfan78]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

And Elias is riding Duquette's coattails.

 This roster was not in good shape for the future at all when Elias took over. Let’s give him some time. I still cringe at the Manny return he worked out. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by osravensfan78

[LTO's]

57 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Where do you think that objective might have come from? Do you think it may have had anything to do with the guy he reported to, who was nearing the end of decades of ownership without ever having a team that reached, let alone won, a World Series? You know, the guy who thought that keeping that core group together, adding a few veteran pitchers and keeping Chris Davis around to hit HRs for another decade would enable the team to remain competitive, at the same time refusing to spend money on an international program that might have been producing productive talent by now. I think that might have been a factor.

It's pretty obvious that ownership meddled in a few baseball ops decisions under DD. That still doesn't mean he was a good GM. He mostly wasn't. It is unjustifiable how bad things got in late 2017/2018 and to top it all off his deadline trades that year were horrible. Before that, I do not think anyone forced him to trade Eduardo Rodriguez for a rental reliever or Zach Davies for Parra. It's been widely reported that Peter vetoed a Britton trade in 2017. If DD had his way he would've gotten Colin Moran back who is a replacement level player at best. He signed Ubaldo and forfeited the 14th overall pick for Yovani Gallardo.

I understand the bar is very low in Baltimore and he presided over the first playoff team in 15 years, but we won ONE playoff series under his regime. That's it. The 2012 team was a great story but was sort of fluky. Every other team outside of 2014 was thoroughly mediocre. The whole "Best record in the AL over 5 years" narrative used to infuriate me. If the current FO matches DD's level of success here it will be considered a pretty big disappointment to me even with the caveat that they are coming into a catastrophically worse situation than DD did. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

Where do you think that objective might have come from? Do you think it may have had anything to do with the guy he reported to, who was nearing the end of decades of ownership without ever having a team that reached, let alone won, a World Series? You know, the guy who thought that keeping that core group together, adding a few veteran pitchers and keeping Chris Davis around to hit HRs for another decade would enable the team to remain competitive, at the same time refusing to spend money on an international program that might have been producing productive talent by now. I think that might have been a factor.

Duquette was known for acquiring international talent with the Expos and Red Sox, but that didn’t happen during his Orioles tenure. Did Duquette change or was he handcuffed by ownership from the international market. 

There was a power struggle between different factions and you can’t just place the blame on one person. Well maybe you could, but that person isn’t Duquette. 

[osravensfan78]

35 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Duquette was known for acquiring international talent with the Expos and Red Sox, but that didn’t happen during his Orioles tenure. Did Duquette change or was he handcuffed by ownership from the international market. 

There was a power struggle between different factions and you can’t just place the blame on one person. Well maybe you could, but that person isn’t Duquette. 

I’ve heard this a few times about the Duquette tenure, but I’ve never fully understood it. I don’t see Elias with these same obstacles that people refer to. Why do you think that is? Do you think the organization changed or was Duquette not given as much power as Elias? I’ve never heard of anyone getting in Elias’ way of a trade. This is an honest question and not made to take anything away from your post. Just curious what people think. 

[DocJJ]

Machado trade at the time seemed so-so....    With Diaz never able to stay healthy, and Kremer's struggles, it's starting to look pretty bad.  (Although the Dodgers only had Machado as a half season rental and didn't make it to the World Series with him...)

 

This team is MANY YEARS away from any type of contention.  And they do NOT have anywhere near enough big time talent in the minors to compete in the AL East anytime soon.   They have to trade ANYONE with value for prospects.   They need to finish last and get the number 1 or 2 pick in the draft.  They need to stay the course.   

 

Looking at who I feel is part of the next potentially competitive O's team:

Lineup-

1B Ryan Mountcastle

2B ?????  (Time to give Jones/Leyba a shot and see what, if anything, they can do)

SS ?????  (Maybe Jordan Westburg?)

3B Gunnar Henderson (Thinking he won't stick at SS)

C Adley Rutschman

CF Cedric Mullins

RF ???????

LF ???????

Rotation-

1. Greyson Rodriguez

2. DL Hall

3. ?????  (Baumann if he regains his health?)

4. ??????  (Bradish?  Smith?  Brnovich?)

5. ??????

 

You see that we just don't have enough talent in our minors yet.   We must add more.   Keep flipping our best guys for prospects.  I'd keep Mullins just because he is my favorite Oriole and I can't possibly stomach the idea of parting with him....  We need our luck to improve (e.g.- not have our top draft picks develop myocarditis...  Here's praying for Kjerstad's health...!)

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, osravensfan78 said:

I’ve heard this a few times about the Duquette tenure, but I’ve never fully understood it. I don’t see Elias with these same obstacles that people refer to. Why do you think that is? Do you think the organization changed or was Duquette not given as much power as Elias? I’ve never heard of anyone getting in Elias’ way of a trade. This is an honest question and not made to take anything away from your post. Just curious what people think. 

Peter Angelos stepped down.

[osravensfan78]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Peter Angelos stepped down.

Thank you. I couldn’t give any more credit today. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, osravensfan78 said:

Thank you. I couldn’t give any more credit today. 

Don't worry about it.

[Gurgi]

26 minutes ago, osravensfan78 said:

I’ve heard this a few times about the Duquette tenure, but I’ve never fully understood it. I don’t see Elias with these same obstacles that people refer to. Why do you think that is? Do you think the organization changed or was Duquette not given as much power as Elias? I’ve never heard of anyone getting in Elias’ way of a trade. This is an honest question and not made to take anything away from your post. Just curious what people think. 

Peter is old as hell and his sons are less inclinded to muck around.  Probably having heard decades of "worst owner of all North American Sports Franchises"  anyone remember those stories in papers?  Angelos was widely attacked for a long time and his sons have had to have learned from it even when Angelos never really did seem to learn.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Gurgi said:

Peter is old as hell and his sons are less inclinded to muck around.  Probably having heard decades of "worst owner of all North American Sports Franchises"  anyone remember those stories in papers?  Angelos was widely attacked for a long time and his sons have had to have learned from it even when Angelos never really did seem to learn.  

The book on the sons has barely begun.  I wouldn't reach a conclusion yet.