A different kind of Trade Deadline Strategy

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Haha. Ok. So you would trade Hall but if they asked for Westburg as the second piece, you would say no.

Yes..I don’t feel the next few pieces would have to be at the level of Westburg, who I feel is a step above players like Bradish and Baumann.(ie the bottom part of our top 10)

What else would be in the trade is dependent on Cle.  There are a lot of directions to go in imo.  They could want guys in the majors or close to it because they feel they can still win in 2022.  A guy like Scott could be appealing to them in a trade.  Santander makes sense for them as well but that’s taking on some salary and I’m not sure that’s the direction they would go in. 
 

Plus, a host of MiL guys would be in play too.  

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I certainly would prefer it if we had him for one more year but again, I think we can win with him in these next 2 years.

I would say that if the Os were ready to start trading assets, that there are probably longer term targets that I would prefer over Ramirez but I certainly would love to add him.  Would I use my best trade chips for him?  Perhaps but I will say that it does depend on what else they would be willing to do to commit to winning now.

Yeah, if there was an extra year, it would be a lot better.  Also, I wish we had gotten more pitching depth in the draft - as is, I can't see including Hall in a trade. 

I do like the idea of trying to compete in 2023 - but we might have to wait a year to make a big trade like that.  Getting a quality pitcher in free agency this offseason would certainly help.  

  

[Aristotelian]

Be patient. Give the Grayson/Rutschman cohort some time to establish themselves as plus major league players first. Built a core that is playing over .500 without help from outside. That's when you start trading for veterans to fill whatever holes you have. Way too early to be trading prospects for veterans on limited contracts with no guarantee we will be competitive in that window. If you trade for Ramirez where do you play Gunnar? Shouldn't we give Gunnar a chance first and then decide if 3B is a hole we need to fill? Or are you trading Gunnar to get Ramirez? 

[Aristotelian]

PS We can always sign Ramirez in free agency if he is still good in a couple years. 

[LTO's]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a worse trade idea for the Orioles

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Be patient. Give the Grayson/Rutschman cohort some time to establish themselves as plus major league players first. Built a core that is playing over .500 without help from outside. That's when you start trading for veterans to fill whatever holes you have. Way too early to be trading prospects for veterans on limited contracts with no guarantee we will be competitive in that window. If you trade for Ramirez where do you play Gunnar? Shouldn't we give Gunnar a chance first and then decide if 3B is a hole we need to fill? Or are you trading Gunnar to get Ramirez? 

Gunnar, if he makes it up here, will have a spot somewhere.  You always find a room for talent.

[LTO's]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

PS We can always sign Ramirez in free agency if he is still good in a couple years. 

Guy in his 30s with a body that’s going to move him to 1B/DH sometime soon? Exactly the type of player the Orioles should stay away from 

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, LTO's said:

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a worse trade idea for the Orioles

Doesn't matter.  Its not even in the realm on possibilities that Elias would trade top prospect talent for Ramirez.

[Aristotelian]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Gunnar, if he makes it up here, will have a spot somewhere.  You always find a room for talent.

Wow, this is pretty much wrong on every level. He will definitely make it here unless there is a catastrophic injury. He might have a spot but DH would be a huge waste of his talent. We have had issues for years building around multiple redundant guys leaving us with huge holes to fill while not getting the most out of players we have. And if Gunnar can't play SS, I'm not sure where else you play him besides 3B. If you move him to 1B, then you are blocking a bat that needs to play there (Mountcastle?). I don't know how you can plan on the O's being competitive in 2 years and then block one of their top prospects at their natural position. 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Wow, this is pretty much wrong on every level. He will definitely make it here unless there is a catastrophic injury. He might have a spot but DH would be a huge waste of his talent. We have had issues for years building around multiple redundant guys leaving us with huge holes to fill while not getting the most out of players we have. And if Gunnar can't play SS, I'm not sure where else you play him besides 3B. If you move him to 1B, then you are blocking a bat that needs to play there (Mountcastle?). I don't know how you can plan on the O's being competitive in 2 years and then block one of their top prospects at their natural position. 

I’m not really sure what’s wrong about what I said.  Gunnar isn’t going to be in Baltimore, in all likelihood, in 2022.  
 

He probably isn’t here until late April 2023.  I’m not saying this is when he should be up but it’s when I think he will be up based on how slow they are being with promotions.

So, we are talking about finding a place for him for a the majority of one season.

You are also making the assumption that he doesn’t get hurt, continues to be really good in the upper minors and forces his way up here.  Lots of guys look great in the lower minors but fizzle out at the top.  You are treating it like it’s a guarantee that he will be here.  It’s far from that.

Also, because Ramirez can play second base and because we have the DH in the AL, there will be at bats for Gunnar.  The Os also love versatility, so he could play some CO as time moves on and plus, he may be able to stick at SS.  
 

So yes, I don’t think having Ramirez here for one year is going to stunt his development.  

[Ruzious]

52 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Guy in his 30s with a body that’s going to move him to 1B/DH sometime soon? Exactly the type of player the Orioles should stay away from 

He is kinda oddly shaped - and only 5'9.  Hard to say if he'll age well - could end up like Sandoval.  There should be better targets by next year.    

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

7 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

He is kinda oddly shaped - and only 5'9.  Hard to say if he'll age well - could end up like Sandoval.  There should be better targets by next year.    

Maybe Ramirez will still be able to play 3B into his thirties with his body type, but I don't think that's a risk I'm willing to chance if I'm the Orioles.

The Red Sox can afford to flush money down the toilet with a bad contract on Sandoval, but if the Orioles misfire on a big contract it'll set the franchise back for years.

[billw76]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

You can build that pipeline and get better at the ML level at the same time.  
 

Not every MiLer is destined to become a Baltimore Oriole.  They are also assets to do other things with.

And the Os should be contending in 2023 and 2022 they should be a lot more competitive.

I gotta disagree with you on this, at least as far as trading for Ramirez. I think it would significantly weaken the farm to acquire him, while making the ML team only slightly better, definitely not enough to make the trade worth it IMO.

You'd absolutely have to give up either Hall or Henderson to start and then go from there, probably another top 15 guy if not another top 10. 

The only way to build that pipeline after making that trade, is to trade other guys on the ML roster. Whether that's the relievers, Mancini, Mullins or Means doesn't really matter, but then you weaken the ML roster, so it kinda defeats the purpose of acquiring Ramirez in the first place.

I'm all for improving the ML roster, but I don't think it's the right time to weaken the farm for a marginal upgrade.

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, billw76 said:

I gotta disagree with you on this, at least as far as trading for Ramirez. I think it would significantly weaken the farm to acquire him, while making the ML team only slightly better, definitely not enough to make the trade worth it IMO.

You'd absolutely have to give up either Hall or Henderson to start and then go from there, probably another top 15 guy if not another top 10. 

The only way to build that pipeline after making that trade, is to trade other guys on the ML roster. Whether that's the relievers, Mancini, Mullins or Means doesn't really matter, but then you weaken the ML roster, so it kinda defeats the purpose of acquiring Ramirez in the first place.

I'm all for improving the ML roster, but I don't think it's the right time to weaken the farm for a marginal upgrade.

Ok, so say you trade Hall and Baumann or Bradish (just choosing 2 people)

You think a system widely regarded as a top 10 system will SIGNIFICANTLY weaken if they deal 2 players?  
 

I think we have a different definition of significantly weaken.  I think it hurts in the short term but you can recover and it makes the ML team better, which is far more important than where your system is rated by Baseball America.

[phatty]

Padres seem like they are trying to stay under luxury tax (source to the Athletic)

While I don’t particularly want Homer at $59 million over 4 years (especially after Davis) if they brought the deal down to $8-$10 million/ year and added a top 5 pitching prospect (Lange type) it would excite me a bit. 
 

I doubt the Orioles would ever be interested in “buying” a prospect, but I’m not sure what else would interest SD