Richie Martin's range and arm

[Frobby]

34 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

 

Bbref rfield is -11 in 2019 which isnt good. OAA in 2019 is -1 (20 out of 35), which is almost average. But I remembered him being solid. I didnt see him as a poor defensive SS but its possible he misplayed alot of balls I didnt see. 

 

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

UZR had him at -4.2 and UZR/150 was -11.

Also, Rtot had him at -8.    So, three of four advanced metrics had him significantly below average, OAA had him just a touch below average.   My eye test was more in line with OAA than the others, but whatever.   The fact is, he needs to be significantly above average to carry his way below average bat, and/or his hitting needs to improve.  But it’s two years later and he’s finally healthy, so let’s see what he looks like this year.   

 

[interloper]

Going to be hard to make any judgements on Martin this year with the time off and lack of AAA playing time. Like Hyde said, probably just going to use him to spell guys. I think he's a great guy to have on the bench over someone like, say, Valaika. I prefer the speed and defense to the power potential. 

I still want to know if Urias can play 3B. I feel like they should give that a look just to see. 

[interloper]

Just now, Frobby said:

 

Also, Rtot had him at -8.    So, three of four advanced metrics had him significantly below average, OAA had him just a touch below average.   My eye test was more in line with OAA than the others, but whatever.   The fact is, he needs to be significantly above average to carry his way below average bat, and/or his hitting needs to improve.  But it’s two years later and he’s finally healthy, so let’s see what he looks like this year.   

 

Yeah, people might forget he was coming straight from AA and thrust into a starting role at the bigs. He might have been overwhelmed a bit on both sides of the ball. A lot can change in a young man in two years. I think it was a cool move to promote him almost immediately as soon as he was ready. He showed a lot of fire after making that play. Guy looks like he wants to be a big leaguer. He's got to hit a little, though. I think he will. 

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

Also, Rtot had him at -8.    So, three of four advanced metrics had him significantly below average, OAA had him just a touch below average.   My eye test was more in line with OAA than the others, but whatever.   The fact is, he needs to be significantly above average to carry his way below average bat, and/or his hitting needs to improve.  But it’s two years later and he’s finally healthy, so let’s see what he looks like this year.   

 

I think he is better than those metrics say as well but I also think people overrate his defense.  

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

 

The most impressive thing about that play wasn't the range or the arm;  it was how he had the balance to make an accurate throw while running toward 3rd base.  

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

 

Also, Rtot had him at -8.    So, three of four advanced metrics had him significantly below average, OAA had him just a touch below average.   My eye test was more in line with OAA than the others, but whatever.   The fact is, he needs to be significantly above average to carry his way below average bat, and/or his hitting needs to improve.  But it’s two years later and he’s finally healthy, so let’s see what he looks like this year.   

 

I think OAA better accounted for shifting, and I would put more faith in that than the other metrics. 

But he's going to probably have to be a lot better than average if he's going to carry his bat.  Or his bat is going to have to get a lot better, and at 26 I have my doubts.

[Yossarian]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

Martin showed off good range and a strong arm last night.  He looked like an upgrade at SS.  But he went 0-3.  Urias can hit some but he didn't get to a pop fly at 2nd that he probably should have had.  Didn't look like he got a good jump on it.

I am interested to see more of Martin at SS.

I wouldn't say he didn't get a good jump on it so much as he took off in the completely wrong direction to field it.  He could have walked over to where the ball finally came down - which was about 2 feet onto the outfield grass on the first base side of where the second baseman normally plays.  Urias starting out opening up his right shoulder and running out toward center field before twisting around and moving back to the right.  Something screwy must have been going on with the wind yesterday because Orioles fielders were having a very tough time judging balls hit in the air.  Even the infield pop-up toward the end of the game that Urias caught seemed to nearly hit him in the face as it came down into his glove.  

[Ohfan67]

7 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

That was a great play, no question. Unfortunately he has brought Chris Davis level offense so far. What OPS would it take for Martin to be, say, a 3 WAR player? 

A 3 WAR player is a super high bar for recent Orioles. In many recent seasons there has only been one Oriole per season that produced 3.0 or higher WAR. I would be delighted if Martin produced 1.5 WAR next year. 

[Ohfan67]

3 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

A 3 WAR player is a super high bar for recent Orioles. In many recent seasons there has only been one Oriole per season that produced 3.0 or higher WAR. I would be delighted if Martin produced 1.5 WAR next year. 

I may have been a little harsh on recent players and a little to "delighted" with a 1.5 WAR season. A 2 WAR season from Martin would, IMO, definitely be a delightful surprise. 

[NCRaven]

If winning games was the goal for 2021, I'd still want Urias over Martin.  If Martin could hit, that might change in the future, but his glove can't overcome the offensive downside right now.

 

[sportsfan8703]

Martin SS

Urias 2B

Mateo 3B

Thats how the rest of this season should go. Maybe Jones when rosters expand.

[Frobby]

I see Richie’s arm produced it’s first error already.   What happened?   I didn’t watch the game.  

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I see Richie’s arm produced it’s first error already.   What happened?   I didn’t watch the game.  

Very similar to his big play, went deep in the hole on a ball deflected by the 3B. Made the impossible throw and it beat the runner by a step. However, the ball bounced and Franco (first play subbing for Mountcastle) whiffed on the scoop. Since the runner advanced the error had to go someone and they picked Richie. However, it was actually a terrific play that would have been another web gem had Franco picked it.

[Jammer7]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Very similar to his big play, went deep in the hole on a ball deflected by the 3B. Made the impossible throw and it beat the runner by a step. However, the ball bounced and Franco (first play subbing for Mountcastle) whiffed on the scoop. Since the runner advanced the error had to go someone and they picked Richie. However, it was actually a terrific play that would have been another web gem had Franco picked it.

Chris Davis was watching at home and saying, "I would have made that play." And he would be correct. Maybe Mountcastle would have made that play as well. Going forward, we need to make Mountcastle's development at 1B a priority. Even the best defenders need help from the 1B sometimes. Many times this year, our 1B situation cost us errors on other players and themselves. Trey's rust, and Ryan's inexperience have cost guys like Urias, Galvis and Franco some error. Those extended innings, and well, you know the rest.

[Frobby]

Martin booted a hot one-hopper hit straight at him, and was charged with his second error in three games.   He also failed to field another hot one-hopper cleanly, but was able to recover in time to throw out the runner.