Let's discuss RHP Bryan Baker

[Aristotelian]

He's entering Cionel Perez territory. Probably has a longish leash but it's getting shorter. If he were to be optioned to give someone else a shot I would not be upset. For now, keep him out of anything high leverage. 

[ace20251]

bakes not looking great right now,really the entire bullpen is struggling,they need to start scoring more if they want to keep winning at the current pace because the pen is giving up runs every game recently

[dystopia]

10 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He's entering Cionel Perez territory. Probably has a longish leash but it's getting shorter. If he were to be optioned to give someone else a shot I would not be upset. For now, keep him out of anything high leverage. 

Nah. I’d much rather see Perez in there than Baker. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

4 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Nah. I’d much rather see Perez in there than Baker. 

Perez has been the better reliever by far during May.

[Bemorewins]

9 hours ago, ace20251 said:

bakes not looking great right now,really the entire bullpen is struggling,they need to start scoring more if they want to keep winning at the current pace because the pen is giving up runs every game recently

The problem with Baker and the rest of the bullpen is the starting pitching. They are overworked. Even Elias said so in his presser yesterday. We don’t have any starters save for one who can give us any kind of consistent length. And even he failed to do so yesterday. If you want to know what to attribute Baker’s struggles to, just look at the number of appearances thus far this season. He has pitched way too much. I’m fearing a similar thing is going to happen to Cano and Bautista. We can’t work these guys like this and then expect them to maintain performance through the long season.

[Billy F-Face3]

22 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The problem with Baker and the rest of the bullpen is the starting pitching. They are overworked. Even Elias said so in his presser yesterday. We don’t have any starters save for one who can give us any kind of consistent length. And even he failed to do so yesterday. If you want to know what to attribute Baker’s struggles to, just look at the number of appearances thus far this season. He has pitched way too much. I’m fearing a similar thing is going to happen to Cano and Bautista. We can’t work these guys like this and then expect them to maintain performance through the long season.

Now there's something we agree on. I also noticed that Fredi Gonzales and Brandon Hyde seem to have slightly different styles when it comes to how much rope they give the starting pitcher. Hyde is more inclined to pull the starter quicker than Freddi Conzales, based on the answers Freddi gave at his press conference when asked if he was tempted to pull the starter when the other team got a few hits. (The game Hyde was away at his daughter's graduation).

[banks703]

29 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The problem with Baker and the rest of the bullpen is the starting pitching. They are overworked. 

Definitely this. I wonder if someone can pull the data but it seems that both Cano and Baker hit a wall at around the same time. Obviously Cano is still getting guys out but he's been knocked around a bunch his last five or six outings. 

 

They're overworked. Period. GrayRod's every other start turning games into bullpen affairs has been taxing on them. Hopefully Voth can step up and return to last year's form. It's next man up. Wells and Voth were both pretty much written off as starters going into Camp. Tyler has been their best/most consistent rotation guy and Voth (who I was very critical of in the early going) has been pretty good as of late.

 

Going into spring, who'da thunk that at the end of May both Voth and Wells would be in the rotation? I certainly didn't though I did advocate for Wells. Getting better starts from the guys is one thing but I am still not sure that even if Voth is good that the bullpen won't continue to be overworked given that neither Wells nor Voth go deep into games. This is where they need Gibson to continue to eat innings (I would have let him work last night but that's just me) and both Braddish and Kremer need to pitch into the later innings. The bullpen can only be so good being as overworked as they have been. 

 

TLDR; Need better starts, yes but need starters to pitch deeper into games. 

[baltimoriole]

Five straight games allowing a run. Brian Baker is a problem right now.  In 5 of the last 6 games the starter has worked into the 6th, and 3 of them they pitched into the 7th. In this era I think that's pretty good length. The top three starters have ERA's in the 3's, and Kreamer has been solid to exceptional over his last 5 starts. Starting pitching hasn't been the reason Baker has fallen apart. We're almost at the point where if the Orioles want to win, they can't pitch Baker.

[Bemorewins]

10 minutes ago, banks703 said:

Definitely this. I wonder if someone can pull the data but it seems that both Cano and Baker hit a wall at around the same time. Obviously Cano is still getting guys out but he's been knocked around a bunch his last five or six outings. 

 

They're overworked. Period. GrayRod's every other start turning games into bullpen affairs has been taxing on them. Hopefully Voth can step up and return to last year's form. It's next man up. Wells and Voth were both pretty much written off as starters going into Camp. Tyler has been their best/most consistent rotation guy and Voth (who I was very critical of in the early going) has been pretty good as of late.

 

Going into spring, who'da thunk that at the end of May both Voth and Wells would be in the rotation? I certainly didn't though I did advocate for Wells. Getting better starts from the guys is one thing but I am still not sure that even if Voth is good that the bullpen won't continue to be overworked given that neither Wells nor Voth go deep into games. This is where they need Gibson to continue to eat innings (I would have let him work last night but that's just me) and both Braddish and Kremer need to pitch into the later innings. The bullpen can only be so good being as overworked as they have been. 

 

TLDR; Need better starts, yes but need starters to pitch deeper into games. 

I think Voth can be better than Grayson was. It can’t really get much worse than that.

But I don’t think Voth fixes the issue entirely as he is likely to be just another “5 and dive guy”. The problem with having a bunch of #4 and #5 starters is that you don’t get consistent length and have to put additional stress and burden on your bullpen daily.

Some posters continually quote me on some guys second half ERAs from last year, like Kremer and Bradish. And while they had some VERY GOOD starts last year, they are still not guys who can normally get through a lineup 3 times. They just don’t have that kind of stuff/command.

The bullpen wore down last year toward the end of the season and is slated to do the same thanks to consistent overwork/overuse.

Other than Gibson, we can probably count on our hand the number of times that ANY starter has gone beyond 6, let alone a complete 7.

This is our team’s biggest problem and if unaddressed is bound to bite us in the backside again down the stretch.

[Bemorewins]

Just now, baltimoriole said:

Five straight games allowing a run. Brian Baker is a problem right now.  In 5 of the last 6 games the starter has worked into the 6th, and 3 of them they pitched into the 7th. In this era I think that's pretty good length. The top three starters have ERA's in the 3's, and Kreamer has been solid to exceptional over his last 5 starts. Starting pitching hasn't been the reason Baker has fallen apart. We're almost at the point where if the Orioles want to win, they can't pitch Baker.

Look at his number of appearances. It’s among the league leaders. He is pitching WAY TOO MUCH. 

That is most certainly attributed to the starting pitching’s inability to get depth with any kind of frequency. 

Just think about how frequently our middle relief is called upon consistently EVERYTIME through the rotation. It’s usually 4 out of 5 times. And sometimes it’s all 5.

That is not sustainable.

[SemperFi]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The problem with Baker and the rest of the bullpen is the starting pitching. They are overworked. Even Elias said so in his presser yesterday. We don’t have any starters save for one who can give us any kind of consistent length. And even he failed to do so yesterday. If you want to know what to attribute Baker’s struggles to, just look at the number of appearances thus far this season. He has pitched way too much. I’m fearing a similar thing is going to happen to Cano and Bautista. We can’t work these guys like this and then expect them to maintain performance through the long season.

Although I tend to agree, oddly the statistics as a whole don't really bear this out (at this point) other than appearances.  The Orioles starters are currently 6th in the majors in innings pitched.   The major concern to me is individual usage, will Cano hold up-or Bautista for a full season? 

The Orioles pitching tactic seems to be cheap starters and a strong bullpen (out of necessity) but can we really expect to keep finding/developing guys like Bautista/Cano and get stong performances year over year from guys like Perez, Aiken, Baker, and Coulombe?  Looking at these guys two years ago, who imagined any of them would be this productive? 

   

[Bemorewins]

18 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

Although I tend to agree, oddly the statistics as a whole don't really bear this out (at this point) other than appearances.  The Orioles starters are currently 6th in the majors in innings pitched.   The major concern to me is individual usage, will Cano hold up-or Bautista for a full season? 

The Orioles pitching tactic seems to be cheap starters and a strong bullpen (out of necessity) but can we really expect to keep finding/developing guys like Bautista/Cano and get stong performances year over year from guys like Perez, Aiken, Baker, and Coulombe?  Looking at these guys two years ago, who imagined any of them would be this productive? 

   

Both Baker and Bautista have appeared in 26 games. The Major League leader has appeared in 28 games. The only reason Cano is not at the top of the leader board as well is due to him starting the season in the Minors.

We are too reliant upon the same few guys to win games. 

I think it is possible on most years to find a BP arm or to trade for one (on the cheaper side) at the deadline. 

The issue to me goes back to SP. If we are going to have a bunch of "five and dive" guys we have to have multiple relievers who can be a bridge or who can go multiple innings sort of how Akins did in the first half last year. 

Our margin for error is really small based on how our roster has been constructed. If Cano or Bautista were to miss time or begin to be ineffective, we have NO ONE to replace them. I don't feel confident that we can ride this wave and use this formula to get to a WS. I'm not even confident that our BP will be effective come October at this rate.

I say this with sincerity and no sarcasm. I appreciate the fact check. Those IP stats from the starters I didn't know and are MUCH better than I would have thought. But given that, we are still putting too much pressure on 3 back end guys right now. 

[Frobby]

42 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Look at his number of appearances. It’s among the league leaders. He is pitching WAY TOO MUCH. 

That is most certainly attributed to the starting pitching’s inability to get depth with any kind of frequency. 

Just think about how frequently our middle relief is called upon consistently EVERYTIME through the rotation. It’s usually 4 out of 5 times. And sometimes it’s all 5.

That is not sustainable.

I do think this is an issue.  It should be noted, however, that the O’s are not outliers here.  They rank 8th in the AL in IP/start, and their 5.3 IP/start is exactly league average.   https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2023-starter-pitching.shtml

 

[SemperFi]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Both Baker and Bautista have appeared in 26 games. The Major League leader has appeared in 28 games. The only reason Cano is not at the top of the leader board as well is due to him starting the season in the Minors.

We are too reliant upon the same few guys to win games. 

I think it is possible on most years to find a BP arm or to trade for one (on the cheaper side) at the deadline. 

The issue to me goes back to SP. If we are going to have a bunch of "five and dive" guys we have to have multiple relievers who can be a bridge or who can go multiple innings sort of how Akins did in the first half last year. 

Our margin for error is really small based on how our roster has been constructed. If Cano or Bautista were to miss time or begin to be ineffective, we have NO ONE to replace them. I don't feel confident that we can ride this wave and use this formula to get to a WS. I'm not even confident that our BP will be effective come October at this rate.

I say this with sincerity and no sarcasm. I appreciate the fact check. Those IP stats from the starters I didn't know and are MUCH better than I would have thought. But given that, we are still putting too much pressure on 3 back end guys right now. 

Hi Bemore-the fact check was on me not you, I had exactly the same thoughts you do. 

I don't know bullpen answer but I too suspect there will be issues going forward.  I just found it interesting that the starters are eating many more innings than I thought and the bullpen (aggragate) is in line with MLB.  That said everyone but Bautista and Cano are replacable IMO. 

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

Hi Bemore-the fact check was on me not you, I had exactly the same thoughts you do. 

I don't know bullpen answer but I too suspect there will be issues going forward.  I just found it interesting that the starters are eating many more innings than I thought and the bullpen (aggragate) is in line with MLB.  That said everyone but Bautista and Cano are replacable IMO. 

Another issue that we have is that we only have 2 and a half reliable arms in high leverage situations. Because we play close games almost all of the time, Baker, Bautista, and Cano are being called upon way too frequent. Thus the high appearances/innings pitch.

I like you don't know the answer to this. It's not like we can make a trade for a more reliable starter right now. And we have trade various guys in the BP and none of them seem to be too effective in high leverage spots (Givens, Perez, Baumann). Coulombe has been ok, but was ineffective last night. And Akin doesn't pitch all that much. Voth wasn't used in high leverage situations and now he appears to be in the rotation, I guess?