Are we really not signing anyone else?

[Three Run Homer]

42 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

Elias thought Lyles finished hot though, and pitched 180 innings. Davies isnt terrible at that price, but the O's need to find out what they have with Bradish, Baumann, Hall and a few others.

Ultimately, I want to see the young pitchers too.  But I think they need to show that they have mastered AAA before we throw them to the wolves at the MLB level.  Bradish, Baumann, Wells, Lowther, Akin and Kremer have pitched at AAA but have not had success there.  GrayRod and Hall have not yet pitched at AAA.  How are they supposed to handle pitching in the majors if they can't master AAA?  We tried force-feeding these guys last year and most of them were terrible.  

I don't want the O's to break the bank on any starters for this year, but a couple more one year deals for guys like Zach Davies would have given the young pitchers a chance to prove themselves and learn at lower levels.   I don't think sink-or-swim is a great way to develop prospects, and it is depressing for the fans (not to mention the other players) to see the O's starting pitchers getting destroyed three or four out of every five games.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Ultimately, I want to see the young pitchers too.  But I think they need to show that they have mastered AAA before we throw them to the wolves at the MLB level.  Bradish, Baumann, Wells, Lowther, Akin and Kremer have pitched at AAA but have not had success there.  GrayRod and Hall have not yet pitched at AAA.  How are they supposed to handle pitching in the majors if they can't master AAA?  We tried force-feeding these guys last year and most of them were terrible.  

I don't want the O's to break the bank on any starters for this year, but a couple more one year deals for guys like Zach Davies would have given the young pitchers a chance to prove themselves and learn at lower levels.   I don't think sink-or-swim is a great way to develop prospects, and it is depressing for the fans (not to mention the other players) to see the O's starting pitchers getting destroyed three or four out of every five games.  

You make it sound like "mastering" AAA is in some way a requirement for succeeding in the majors.

Means went 6-5 with a 3.48 ERA at Norfolk.  That doesn't sound masterful to me, not at 2018 Norfolk.

Tons of guys barely pitch at AAA at all, or skip it entirely.

Garrett Olson put up seasons at Norfolk with a 3.16 and 2.97 ERA.  How did that work out for him?

Some guys have the stuff to get out minor league hitters and not major league hitters.  More time at AAA won't help them.

[jabba72]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You make it sound like "mastering" AAA is in some way a requirement for succeeding in the majors.

Means went 6-5 with a 3.48 ERA at Norfolk.  That doesn't sound masterful to me, not at 2018 Norfolk.

Tons of guys barely pitch at AAA at all, or skip it entirely.

Garrett Olson put up seasons at Norfolk with a 3.16 and 2.97 ERA.  How did that work out for him?

Some guys have the stuff to get out minor league hitters and not major league hitters.  More time at AAA won't help them.

The new era I think from 2019 on is with the major league ball in AAA. Pitching well there means your stuff probably is pretty good. Just an assumption. 

[Orioles0615]

15 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Ultimately, I want to see the young pitchers too.  But I think they need to show that they have mastered AAA before we throw them to the wolves at the MLB level.  Bradish, Baumann, Wells, Lowther, Akin and Kremer have pitched at AAA but have not had success there.  GrayRod and Hall have not yet pitched at AAA.  How are they supposed to handle pitching in the majors if they can't master AAA?  We tried force-feeding these guys last year and most of them were terrible.  

I don't want the O's to break the bank on any starters for this year, but a couple more one year deals for guys like Zach Davies would have given the young pitchers a chance to prove themselves and learn at lower levels.   I don't think sink-or-swim is a great way to develop prospects, and it is depressing for the fans (not to mention the other players) to see the O's starting pitchers getting destroyed three or four out of every five games.  

All those guys are 25-27. Its time to shit or get off the pot. Either be a starter pitcher, go to the bullpen, or be DFAd

[Three Run Homer]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You make it sound like "mastering" AAA is in some way a requirement for succeeding in the majors.

Means went 6-5 with a 3.48 ERA at Norfolk.  That doesn't sound masterful to me, not at 2018 Norfolk.

Tons of guys barely pitch at AAA at all, or skip it entirely.

Garrett Olson put up seasons at Norfolk with a 3.16 and 2.97 ERA.  How did that work out for him?

Some guys have the stuff to get out minor league hitters and not major league hitters.  More time at AAA won't help them.

Mastering AAA is not a sufficient condition for being a good major league pitcher, but for all but the very best prospects I would argue that it is a necessary condition.  

John Means' 2018 is a reasonable benchmark--if someone can pitch 100 innings with a 3.5 ERA and good peripherals at AAA, I'd say they're ready for a major league rotation.  

Of the O's current hopefuls, the one who matches up best with John Means' 2018 is Alex Wells, who had a 3.29 ERA at Norfolk in 54.2 IP.  I think that's enough evidence that he should get a shot.  

Michael Baumann is not far off--he pitched very well (2.00 ERA) in 27 IP at Norfolk last year.  Ideally he would start the season at Norfolk and come up if he continues to pitch well there, but I could see a case for giving him a shot.  Bruce Zimmerman had a brief stay in Norfolk last year and his performance there (2.40 ERA in 15 IP) suggested that he would do ok in the majors, which he did.  

Keegan Akin never had any business being put in the O's rotation after pitching to a 4.73 ERA in 112 innings in 2019.  I would say the same now for Dean Kremer, who had a 4.91 ERA in 62 IP last year in Norfolk after an 8.84 ERA in 19 IP in 2019.  Ditto Zac Lowther, who had a 6.53 ERA in 30 IP last year at Norfolk, his first attempt at AAA.  I think all three should start the season at Norfolk, regardless of whether the O's see them as starters or in the bullpen down the line.  

Kyle Bradish?  4.26 ERA, 105K/39BB in 87 IP at Norfolk.  Not awful but not screaming ready for the majors either, especially the control numbers.   Kevin Smith definitely needs more time at Norfolk (6.23 EAR in 56 IP last season. 

I'm not counting on DL Hall or GrayRod to make the majors this season, and the O's shouldn't either.  Adjusting to the major league ball at AAA is a difficult step, and all of the guys I mentioned above had success at AA before hitting the wall (in many cases) at AAA.   

Let these guys show that they deserve a rotation spot, then give them one.  In the meantime, sign a couple of Zach Davies types so that you don't have to force-feed guys who aren't ready yet.  

 

[Frobby]

30 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Mastering AAA is not a sufficient condition for being a good major league pitcher, but for all but the very best prospects I would argue that it is a necessary condition.  

John Means' 2018 is a reasonable benchmark--if someone can pitch 100 innings with a 3.5 ERA and good peripherals at AAA, I'd say they're ready for a major league rotation.  

Of the O's current hopefuls, the one who matches up best with John Means' 2018 is Alex Wells, who had a 3.29 ERA at Norfolk in 54.2 IP.  I think that's enough evidence that he should get a shot.  

Michael Baumann is not far off--he pitched very well (2.00 ERA) in 27 IP at Norfolk last year.  Ideally he would start the season at Norfolk and come up if he continues to pitch well there, but I could see a case for giving him a shot.  Bruce Zimmerman had a brief stay in Norfolk last year and his performance there (2.40 ERA in 15 IP) suggested that he would do ok in the majors, which he did.  

Keegan Akin never had any business being put in the O's rotation after pitching to a 4.73 ERA in 112 innings in 2019.  I would say the same now for Dean Kremer, who had a 4.91 ERA in 62 IP last year in Norfolk after an 8.84 ERA in 19 IP in 2019.  Ditto Zac Lowther, who had a 6.53 ERA in 30 IP last year at Norfolk, his first attempt at AAA.  I think all three should start the season at Norfolk, regardless of whether the O's see them as starters or in the bullpen down the line.  

Kyle Bradish?  4.26 ERA, 105K/39BB in 87 IP at Norfolk.  Not awful but not screaming ready for the majors either, especially the control numbers.   Kevin Smith definitely needs more time at Norfolk (6.23 EAR in 56 IP last season. 

I'm not counting on DL Hall or GrayRod to make the majors this season, and the O's shouldn't either.  Adjusting to the major league ball at AAA is a difficult step, and all of the guys I mentioned above had success at AA before hitting the wall (in many cases) at AAA.   

Let these guys show that they deserve a rotation spot, then give them one.  In the meantime, sign a couple of Zach Davies types so that you don't have to force-feed guys who aren't ready yet.  

 

If you are going to ding Akin for a 4.73 ERA over 112 innings in 2019, then I don’t think you can rely on lower ERAs in vastly smaller sample sizes to say someone is ready.   Also, the International League was very hitter friendly in 2019.   Akin’s 4.73 ERA was below the league average (4.90) and 11th among 24 pitchers who threw 100+ innings.   I’m not saying that was an amazing performance, but I don’t agree that he “never had any business being put in the O’s rotation.”   He pitched at the alternate site and, when called up in the shortened season, threw to a decent 4.56 ERA.  I certainly was disappointed in his performance last year, which commenced when he had a bad spring and didn’t make the Opening Day roster.  

[Sports Guy]

And we are paying Lyles 7M.  Lol

What a mistake.

[Oriole1940]

But we do not know if any of these players we seemingly miss out on,would sign with the Orioles for the exact same salary or even just a little more.  Maybe they see other teams as closer to the playoffs.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And we are paying Lyles 7M.  Lol

What a mistake.

But Lyles had a 2.87 ERA in 31.1 innings pitched during September (ignore his ERA of 7.60 in August). 

The Orioles could have had a real shot at Davies if he was willing to sign with Arizona. Unless Davies really doesn't want to play for Baltimore or prefers staying in the NL. 

[Sports Guy]

55 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

But we do not know if any of these players we seemingly miss out on,would sign with the Orioles for the exact same salary or even just a little more.  Maybe they see other teams as closer to the playoffs.  

Arizona isn’t closer and they have no advantage now with the DH everywhere.

Better weather though.

[OriolesMagic83]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

And we are paying Lyles 7M.  Lol

What a mistake.

I would rather have Davies than Lyles. 

[OriolesMagic83]

6 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

Mastering AAA is not a sufficient condition for being a good major league pitcher, but for all but the very best prospects I would argue that it is a necessary condition.  

John Means' 2018 is a reasonable benchmark--if someone can pitch 100 innings with a 3.5 ERA and good peripherals at AAA, I'd say they're ready for a major league rotation.  

Of the O's current hopefuls, the one who matches up best with John Means' 2018 is Alex Wells, who had a 3.29 ERA at Norfolk in 54.2 IP.  I think that's enough evidence that he should get a shot.  

Michael Baumann is not far off--he pitched very well (2.00 ERA) in 27 IP at Norfolk last year.  Ideally he would start the season at Norfolk and come up if he continues to pitch well there, but I could see a case for giving him a shot.  Bruce Zimmerman had a brief stay in Norfolk last year and his performance there (2.40 ERA in 15 IP) suggested that he would do ok in the majors, which he did.  

Keegan Akin never had any business being put in the O's rotation after pitching to a 4.73 ERA in 112 innings in 2019.  I would say the same now for Dean Kremer, who had a 4.91 ERA in 62 IP last year in Norfolk after an 8.84 ERA in 19 IP in 2019.  Ditto Zac Lowther, who had a 6.53 ERA in 30 IP last year at Norfolk, his first attempt at AAA.  I think all three should start the season at Norfolk, regardless of whether the O's see them as starters or in the bullpen down the line.  

Kyle Bradish?  4.26 ERA, 105K/39BB in 87 IP at Norfolk.  Not awful but not screaming ready for the majors either, especially the control numbers.   Kevin Smith definitely needs more time at Norfolk (6.23 EAR in 56 IP last season. 

I'm not counting on DL Hall or GrayRod to make the majors this season, and the O's shouldn't either.  Adjusting to the major league ball at AAA is a difficult step, and all of the guys I mentioned above had success at AA before hitting the wall (in many cases) at AAA.   

Let these guys show that they deserve a rotation spot, then give them one.  In the meantime, sign a couple of Zach Davies types so that you don't have to force-feed guys who aren't ready yet.  

 

Not surprising that Akin, Lowther, and Kremer struggled in the majors.  They were barely above average at AAA.  We might be lucky to get a couple of relievers out of them. 

[Chuck A]

There will be dumpster diving later towards the end of spring.  Waiver wire pickups to determine our new #3 in the rotation.

[SteveA]

44 minutes ago, Chuck A said:

There will be dumpster diving later towards the end of spring.  Waiver wire pickups to determine our new #3 in the rotation.

Where have you gone, Thomas Eshelman, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

Woo woo woo

[spiritof66]

55 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Where have you gone, Thomas Eshelman, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

Woo woo woo

Signed a minor-league contract with the Padres on Monday.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/padres-thomas-eshelman-catches-on-with-friars