Elias prioritizes player development over winning in the majors

[Moose Milligan]

26 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

What do you think they are doing? They have expanded the Orioles' international program from not really existing to a real, functioning program. You don't go from signing a few dregs and leftovers to signing, developing, and promoting real prospects in two or three years. I want the Orioles to be much better this year and am disappointed that the O's didn't sign two starters and a relief pitcher, but I think indirectly criticizing the Orioles for their international effort is misleading. I'm not thrilled with the pace of the plan, but Elias and company are being incredibly consistent and have certainly dramatically increased international efforts.  

I know exactly what they're doing.  But let's not pretend that the international program was non-existent for a few decades and let's not pretend that didn't play a big part in where this franchise is today.

Have you ever taken a look around at international talent in the majors and wondered "What if the Orioles had been active in the international markets?  Could we have had a guy like Ronald Acuna or Juan Soto?"  

I'm not criticizing Elias for his international efforts, it's weird that you think that I am.  On the contrary, he's done a bang up job down there, there's nothing to criticize him on from that perspective.  

But that doesn't mean he can't sign a good free agent or two at the ML level. 

[jabba72]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

It absolutely is hubris. He’s essentially saying, “these guys I’m selecting are going to be great and our development system is so strong that we will be able to build a competitive club completely on our own.  I can get this organization to 75-81 wins without spending a meaningful dime in free agency.”

 

Alright, Harvard guy.  Let’s see it happen.

 

If it happens he'll be in serious demand IMO. Its not that far fetched to imagine the team puts out a winning record by 2023 and definitely 2024. 

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I beg to differ, I read almost all of your posts.

If you think sticking to a well-thought out and well-articulated plan is a sign of hubris, then I repeat: You don't know what hubris means.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

If it happens he'll be in serious demand IMO. Its not that far fetched to imagine the team puts out a winning record by 2023 and definitely 2024. 

Everything has to break right.

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

If you think sticking to a well-thought out and well-articulated plan is a sign of hubris, then I repeat: You don't know what hubris means.

Okay big guy.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Okay big guy.

Don't get mad your silliness is being called out.

[maybenxtyr]

At this point we know what they are doing. I guess it depends on which side you are on, but it shouldn't be a surprise when they do exactly what they say they're going to do.

 

I would rather watch and follow a team that has the future in Baltimore. I also think it is a recipe for disaster having all of your future arrive within a short period and hinge any plans moving forward on the success of a group of rookies.

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

I also think it is a recipe for disaster having all of your future arrive within a short period and hinge any plans moving forward on the success of a group of rookies.

Yep, this is where I'm at.  

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

At this point we know what they are doing. I guess it depends on which side you are on, but it shouldn't be a surprise when they do exactly what they say they're going to do.

 

I would rather watch and follow a team that has the future in Baltimore. I also think it is a recipe for disaster having all of your future arrive within a short period and hinge any plans moving forward on the success of a group of rookies.

I love how this is depicted as being on a certain side.

There isn’t one person on this site that is against them building up a system, gathering talent, etc…there is zero disagreement to that.

The only disagreement is that some of us believe they should start trying to win now and not tank for another year.  Some of us are tired of players getting real ML time who aren’t MLers.  We want to see better players and more of a commitment from ownership to field a better product while continuing to look out for the long term good of the franchise.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Everything has to break right.

Yep. The Orioles have two of the top pitching prospects in all of MLB, but top prospects flame out all the time.

This approach may work if you assume the O’s will copy the Astros and trade/sign for established veteran pitchers. Except there’s no way of knowing if veteran pitching talent will be available when the O’s need it and second will ownership give the okay to spend the money. 

I think what you said is closer to the truth and Elias really needs almost all the pitching prospects to hit. Plus there is no guarantee there will be a surplus of position players to trade without weakening the lineup. 

I’m going to try and enjoy the ride without getting my hopes worked up. 

[Just Regular]

I enjoyed the slant Meoli took in his newsletter this morning...

By virtue of calling a media session to announce that two of the Orioles’ top pitching prospects – DL Hall and Kyle Bradish – plus former top prospect Yusniel Diaz were all being optioned out to minor league camp, it’s fair to assume Mike Elias wanted to get the rationale for the moves out there and control the expectations about those players’ potential roles in 2022.

In MASN Access world, the push-pull between the team and the reporters probably isn't what it used to be.

I recall at hiring time some of what Elias set out to do was more direct contact with the fanbase, and if you watch the MASN Orioles uploads, sometimes you can see all the money quotes Meoli-Dubroff-Kubatko-Ruiz-Melewski, etc. get before they finish crafting their pieces.   

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Yep. The Orioles have two of the top pitching prospects in all of MLB, but top prospects flame out all the time.

This approach may work if you assume the O’s will copy the Astros and trade/sign for established veteran pitchers. Except there’s no way of knowing if veteran pitching talent will be available when the O’s need it and second will ownership give the okay to spend the money. 

I think what you said is closer to the truth and Elias really needs almost all the pitching prospects to hit. Plus there is no guarantee there will be a surplus of position players to trade without weakening the lineup. 

I’m going to try and enjoy the ride without getting my hopes worked up. 

Yep, he does need all of his pitching prospects to hit.  At least the two big ones in Rodriguez and Hall.  If you can drum up a Means-like talent from the rest, you're in good shape.  

I'd feel better about the rebuild or whatever it's called that we're doing if there were more pitching prospects in the Rodriguez/Hall levels and not in the Akin, Lowther, Kremer types.  IMO, those guys are a dime a dozen.

[maybenxtyr]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I love how this is depicted as being on a certain side.

There isn’t one person on this site that is against them building up a system, gathering talent, etc…there is zero disagreement to that.

The only disagreement is that some of us believe they should start trying to win now and not tank for another year.  Some of us are tired of players getting real ML time who aren’t MLers.  We want to see better players and more of a commitment from ownership to field a better product while continuing to look out for the long term good of the franchise.

 

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I love how this is depicted as being on a certain side.

There isn’t one person on this site that is against them building up a system, gathering talent, etc…there is zero disagreement to that.

The only disagreement is that some of us believe they should start trying to win now and not tank for another year.  Some of us are tired of players getting real ML time who aren’t MLers.  We want to see better players and more of a commitment from ownership to field a better product while continuing to look out for the long term good of the franchise.

You can word it however you want. There's little doubt that people are taking sides on it. I happen to be on the side that they should already be investing money on the ML team.

 

 

[Il BuonO]

29 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:The only disagreement is that some of us believe they should start trying to win now and not tank for another year.  Some of us are tired of players getting real ML time who aren’t MLers.  We want to see better players and more of a commitment from ownership to field a better product while continuing to look out for the long term good of the franchise.

Yep, get busy winning. That means signing better players. 

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I know exactly what they're doing.  But let's not pretend that the international program was non-existent for a few decades and let's not pretend that didn't play a big part in where this franchise is today.

Have you ever taken a look around at international talent in the majors and wondered "What if the Orioles had been active in the international markets?  Could we have had a guy like Ronald Acuna or Juan Soto?"  

I'm not criticizing Elias for his international efforts, it's weird that you think that I am.  On the contrary, he's done a bang up job down there, there's nothing to criticize him on from that perspective.  

But that doesn't mean he can't sign a good free agent or two at the ML level. 

I'm sorry I misunderstood your comment. 

I wanted the Orioles to sign two decent pitchers and a decent bullpen arm this offseason, so I empathize with you there. I'm disappointed they didn't. I don't want to watch mega crappy baseball again this summer. But I think Elias has been relatively open about his take that the organization was in pathetic shape and they are being super, super methodical and deliberate in their rebuild. I'm impatient about it and not looking forward to another sucky year.