Mancini ejection?

[Can_of_corn]

28 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Lmao upon further inspection, Rob Drake is a certified moron, it’s not just limited to yesterday. He can’t spell “civil” correctly.  Spelled it CIVAL.

 

 

Yea he's a pretty terrible person.

[Jammer7]

24 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Or he was just emotionally reacting to being called out in a close game for essentially no reason whatsoever. I'm sure I'd have done the same thing.

Sure. And I think his frustration has built up on his slow start. 

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

The coach is hardly imploring him to get back to 1B.   The coach is actually pointing to 1B before Mancini even turns in the 2B direction.   He's just pointing for him to stay at 1B and not attempt to go to 2B.   Yes, he continues to point at 1B for Mancini to be on the bag and Mancini, probably should have played it 100% safe and gotten back to the bag ASAP, but he never took a step towards 2B and a reasonable interpretation is that he never made any move to advance to 2B.   That would be reasonable.   I can't help people who insist on being unreasonable and have their own little theories on why people are being reasonable.

If you watch closely you will see our first base coach almost always points to the bag like that … habit .. 

[tntoriole]

50 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

If your assessment of the umpire were correct, Trey and Hyde would have been thrown out much sooner. Probably within seconds after they began arguing. Although that does happen, on occasion, it is rare in MLB. The umpires of today generally display a lot less ego than those of years gone by. 

Trey needed to let it go. The umpire explained it to them, and calmly told them to go watch the play and “you’ll see.” Trey might have done this intentionally to fire up his team, not certain of that, but it is possible.

The umpire was being a jerk.. first the ticky tack call.. it is like calling somebody out for leaving too soon .. or phantom tags .. umpires like attention too .. then he dramatically throws our star player out.. as Ben McDonald said he could havevjust let Trey bark a bit (who knows maybe he might be stressed for reasons not readily seen) but instead injected himself and created a show,   playing to the home team and getting himself on TV for his friends and family lol 

 

I just think the whole kabuki theater of how umpires must be respected and losing the performance of players  is another reason to automate the whole process

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yea he's a pretty terrible person.

Who can't spel correctly.

[tntoriole]

12 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Sure. And I think his frustration has built up on his slow start. 

And maybe he has other worries on his mind at times 

[Jammer7]

It was a nit-picky call. A judgement call. So be it. I usually take exception to an umpire having his eyes and ears fixated on a dugout. But with a tiny crowd, Trey’s comments were easily heard. Trey went on for several minutes after the play. Even Trey basically admitted he should have been thrown out for his conduct. 

Watching the game on MASN, Ben McDonald pointed out the umpire looking in. And Kevin Brown said something to the effect that the umpire inserted himself into the game. Tough to know what exactly Trey said, but that umpire is not known to be a jerk from what I know.

I have had many conversations, mostly over adult beverages, with several MLB umpires over the years. Most of them would rather you not notice them. There are some exceptions, sure. Most of these guys take a lot of crap from players, coaches and fans. Often for good reasons. They expect it, to a point. But there are lines you don’t cross. And there are limits on how long a player gets to be animated. 

It’s funny, before the games, the umpires often chat it up with players and coaches behind the scenes. Not all do that, but most. It is quite cordial, normally. Bobby Cox was the one glaring exception I witnessed. He hated the umpires, and he really was a disagreeable jerk. Every umpire I knew, hated dealing with him. I would bet Earl was the same.

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Lol free speech.  

Sure, free speech.  But there are also consequences for free speech.  He can say whatever he wants in his own dugout, you're absolutely correct.  The problem for Trey is that it was aimed at the first base umpire.  

But you draw the line at threatening him?  So what would be acceptable, insults about his mother?  How ****ty of an umpire he is?  

Ahhh, yeah, free speech, no consequences.  That's right.  

The rules though are made up by the sport.  If the sport said Hey .. profanity in the dugout is not a tossabke offense then there would not be the consequence of losing star players. 
It is theater.  With the behavior rules based on the ancient dictates of baseball history. 
Look at hockey .. i have not seen many ejections for players yelling at refs.. or even for engaging in regular brawls.. that is the theater for that sport

There is nothing that says that ejections like Trey’s have to occur. It is just because MLB says so. And they could change it if they want a better product imho

 

[Tony-OH]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's not a call you see often at all but technically it's the correct call.  At the 10 second make Mancini does take a single step toward second while checking to see if the throw got away.

It's not something you should get yourself ejected over.

This is why we were taught to always "peel off" to our right after passing first base. Mancini has played a lot of baseball, he has to know if he takes a step to the left he better get back to the bag.

[Jammer7]

9 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

And maybe he has other worries on his mind at times 

It’s no excuse. We all do. Trey won’t make that excuse, not ever. Even he said he deserved to be tossed. 

[tntoriole]

3 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

It was a nit-picky call. A judgement call. So be it. I usually take exception to an umpire having his eyes and ears fixated on a dugout. But with a tiny crowd, Trey’s comments were easily heard. Trey went on for several minutes after the play. Even Trey basically admitted he should have been thrown out for his conduct. 

Watching the game on MASN, Ben McDonald pointed out the umpire looking in. And Kevin Brown said something to the effect that the umpire inserted himself into the game. Tough to know what exactly Trey said, but that umpire is not known to be a jerk from what I know.

I have had many conversations, mostly over adult beverages, with several MLB umpires over the years. Most of them would rather you not notice them. There are some exceptions, sure. Most of these guys take a lot of crap from players, coaches and fans. Often for good reasons. They expect it, to a point. But there are lines you don’t cross. And there are limits on how long a player gets to be animated. 

It’s funny, before the games, the umpires often chat it up with players and coaches behind the scenes. Not all do that, but most. It is quite cordial, normally. Bobby Cox was the one glaring exception I witnessed. He hated the umpires, and he really was a disagreeable jerk. Every umpire I knew, hated dealing with him. I would bet Earl was the same.

Good points … but the entertainment value lost to the product by ejections of star players over the years far outweighs an umpire’s feelings and ego imho.  Another reason for automation. 
 

And he could have easily have ignored it a moment longer till the first batter stepped in which was just about to occur, then it would have probably been done.  And no star player removed from the product.. which in our case is bad enough anyway lol 

It is that subjective “line that can’t be crossed” in these situations that is variable even with usually placid umpires .. maybe the traffic was bad, maybe his wife got on him that day maybe there was a history with him about a similar play of not calling a runner out who turned a bit so now he is going to make up for that with this etc .. 

 

[SteveA]

33 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

If you watch closely you will see our first base coach almost always points to the bag like that … habit .. 

Of course this isn't actually our regular first base coach, although at this point he probably has coached more games at first than the regular guy has.

[tntoriole]

18 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

It’s no excuse. We all do. Trey won’t make that excuse, not ever. Even he said he deserved to be tossed. 

Suppose the new rule was.. in a situation like this … not ejection but a huge fine?  Would that be acceptable? 

I mean “deserved” is because Trey and the umpire and us fans buy the tradition of how this has been done for over a hundred years.  On some level, we like the rhubarb and the rituals.  And the times when managers and players deliberately escalate to “fire up” or “protect” their cause or team.  It is all theater based on ancient rituals of the game. 
My point is maybe it doesn’t have to be that in game ejection is the only way of maintaining discipline in verbal altercations. And that losing players perhaps makes the product worse. 
 

But it is what it is .. another day, another game lol   Good discussion!  Thanks!! 

[Jammer7]

Just now, tntoriole said:

Good points … but the entertainment value lost to the product by ejections of star players over the years far outweighs an umpire’s feelings and ego imho.  Another reason for automation. 
 

And he could have easily have ignored it a moment longer till the first batter stepped in which was just about to occur, then it would have probably been done.  And no star player removed from the product.. which in our case is bad enough anyway lol 

It is that subjective “line that can’t be crossed” in these situations that is variable even with usually placid umpires .. maybe the traffic was bad, maybe his wife got on him that day maybe there was a history with him about a similar play of not calling a runner out who turned a bit so now he is going to make up for that with this etc .. 

 

Obviously you feel humans are imperfect. Well, so be it. That’s life. I’d rather deal with the nuances of the human condition. To me, that is the culture of the game. I’ve spent a lot of time around the game. I’ve been blessed to have that opportunity. The people are why I love the game. I root for people, not stats. I don’t do fantasy baseball. The grind of a baseball season, the smell of the grass, the mistakes of the human players, coaches and umpires…that is what I love about the game. The culture. And I hate that people keep trying to change the game, make new rules. All of this to “grow the game” or to attract new fans that don’t like baseball and probably never will.

Baseball is not for everyone. The casual fan wants it to fit into a neat time slot, but then the casual fan rarely played the game, even as a kid, or goes to many games. Baseball evolves, sure, and endures because of the people. Some changes have been necessary.

If MLB goes anymore automated, I’m out. I’ll stick to the SEC. Hell, I’ll go watch local HS baseball rather than watch a watered down game that used to be great. L

What will we automate next? The beer guy? Tell me we aren’t going to get rid of Clancy the beer guy too? 

[Big Mac]

11 hours ago, tntoriole said:

No matter what is being said from the dugout.. why the heck do umpires need to respond to it?  Nobody in the stands can hear it and it is not disrupting the game until an overly sensitive, traditional bound umpire walks over and makes it a show. 
 

NFL refs hear profanity ALL the time and do nothing to coaches 

Coach K was totally profane to refs ALL the time .. never got a T 

Ben McDonald and Kevin Brown said it seemed that umpire was going out of the way to try and make sure he heard what was coming from the dugout.  It was a total ump show.