O's were contenders!!

[wildcard]

6 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Or a glutton for punishment! lol..

Considering how much the organization cares, I probably wasted a lot of time!

I know you are not feeling the love from the O's management but the folks on the Hangout certainly appreciate everything you have done.  Its a great site that enhances the enjoyment of watching O's baseball for so many.

Elias  may be smart but he could use some lessons in PR.

[waroriole]

As long as this joke of a roster continues (Owings, Nevin, Bemboom, Odor) the O’s won’t be contending for anything. It’s clear Elias still has no interest in winning. 

[Going Underground]

10 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Or a glutton for punishment! lol..

Considering how much the organization cares, I probably wasted a lot of time!

We Care Alot about one thing.Trying to pay the least amount of rent and not giving the state otr city any revenue  when they host a concert at Camden Yards which the Angelos family didn't pay for. But they care so much about the city when John Angelos made his speech about helping the city after the riots.As they say talk is cheap and so are the Angelos family.

 

[Tony-OH]

Last night's lineup shows how far we have to go to be "contenders". Yes, we have to take into consideration Mountcastle and Hays were out last night, but our 5-9 hitters last night are not major league hitters. Here are the OPSs of our 5-9 hitter and the our pinch hitter in the 9th.

5. Nevin - .528
6. Odor - . 567 - Urias PH - .536
7.  Bannon - .444
8.  Chirnos - .464
9. Owings . 527

Yes, we all realize as well that the ball is dead this year so hitting is down, but good lord, that's a black hole of offense. When the team has no better option than Bannon in the 9th against a hard throwin fastball, slider guy then it tells you the roster construction is not exactly balanced.

This is not to poo-poo on the team while they've been playing pretty decent until last night, just to show the team has a wasys to go before we start shooting off fireworks and thinking the Orioles are contenders.

 

 

[spiritof66]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

I know you are not feeling the love from the O's management but the folks on the Hangout certainly appreciate everything you have done.  Its a great site that enhances the enjoyment of watching O's baseball for so many.

Elias  may be smart but he could use some lessons in PR.

Just curious. Why do you say Elias may be smart? Has he demonstrated that by doing stuff that anyone who's been around the game for a few years and had the resources wouldn't have thought to do? Has he made some decisions that appear to have been unusually wise? Has he come up with innovations that have improved the team? Has he fleeced other GMs in trades? Has he found talent deep in amateur drafts, and if so was that a result of his evaluations? Has he acquired an impressive collection of talent from other teams' scrap heaps? Anything else?

I'm not saying that he hasn't done any of these things or that he's not a real smart guy. And it may be that he was the very best guy who could have been hired for the daunting rebuild on a team controlled by Peter Angelos. After three-plus years, I really don't have a strong opinion about Elias. (I do think the way he's so dramatically deferred spending on payroll is not the best way to go about a rebuild, but I don't know whether he's stuck with that, and for the most part I'm satisfied to see how well his way works.) I can't think of anything he's done to demonstrate that he's especially smart or talented, unless you want to count lowering the bar by which his success should be assessed and putting off the vague time frame for making that assessment.

What have I missed? 

[Frobby]

53 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Last night's lineup shows how far we have to go to be "contenders". Yes, we have to take into consideration Mountcastle and Hays were out last night, but our 5-9 hitters last night are not major league hitters. Here are the OPSs of our 5-9 hitter and the our pinch hitter in the 9th.

5. Nevin - .528
6. Odor - . 567 - Urias PH - .536
7.  Bannon - .444
8.  Chirnos - .464
9. Owings . 527

Yes, we all realize as well that the ball is dead this year so hitting is down, but good lord, that's a black hole of offense. When the team has no better option than Bannon in the 9th against a hard throwin fastball, slider guy then it tells you the roster construction is not exactly balanced.

This is not to poo-poo on the team while they've been playing pretty decent until last night, just to show the team has a wasys to go before we start shooting off fireworks and thinking the Orioles are contenders.

Here’s the Tigers lineup last night:

.608

.583

.706

.587

.415

.765

.559

.634

.579

Obviously the Tigers aren’t contenders either.

Getting Rutschman in the lineup will be a huge upgrade.   Getting Mountcastle and Hays back obviously would make a big difference   

 

 

[tntoriole]

Getting swept by the Tigers will take the air out of the sentiment of the OP lol 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Just curious. Why do you say Elias may be smart? Has he demonstrated that by doing stuff that anyone who's been around the game for a few years and had the resources wouldn't have thought to do? Has he made some decisions that appear to have been unusually wise? Has he come up with innovations that have improved the team? Has he fleeced other GMs in trades? Has he found talent deep in amateur drafts, and if so was that a result of his evaluations? Has he acquired an impressive collection of talent from other teams' scrap heaps? Anything else?

I'm not saying that he hasn't done any of these things or that he's not a real smart guy. And it may be that he was the very best guy who could have been hired for the daunting rebuild on a team controlled by Peter Angelos. After three-plus years, I really don't have a strong opinion about Elias. (I do think the way he's so dramatically deferred spending on payroll is not the best way to go about a rebuild, but I don't know whether he's stuck with that, and for the most part I'm satisfied to see how well his way works.) I can't think of anything he's done to demonstrate that he's especially smart or talented, unless you want to count lowering the bar by which his success should be assessed and putting off the vague time frame for making that assessment.

What have I missed? 

I do think that all the current GM's are probably super smart and well educated individuals.

I don't think you are going to see a Dave Stewart situation anytime soon.

[survivedc]

55 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Last night's lineup shows how far we have to go to be "contenders". Yes, we have to take into consideration Mountcastle and Hays were out last night, but our 5-9 hitters last night are not major league hitters. Here are the OPSs of our 5-9 hitter and the our pinch hitter in the 9th.

5. Nevin - .528
6. Odor - . 567 - Urias PH - .536
7.  Bannon - .444
8.  Chirnos - .464
9. Owings . 527

Yes, we all realize as well that the ball is dead this year so hitting is down, but good lord, that's a black hole of offense. When the team has no better option than Bannon in the 9th against a hard throwin fastball, slider guy then it tells you the roster construction is not exactly balanced.

This is not to poo-poo on the team while they've been playing pretty decent until last night, just to show the team has a wasys to go before we start shooting off fireworks and thinking the Orioles are contenders.

 

 

I’ll give Nevin, Bannon and Chirinos a pass for now—Chirinos being an obvious stopgap and Nevin and Bannon auditioning for utility roles. Certainly hurts to have both the latter two in the lineup at once tho.

[wildcard]

41 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Last night's lineup shows how far we have to go to be "contenders". Yes, we have to take into consideration Mountcastle and Hays were out last night, but our 5-9 hitters last night are not major league hitters. Here are the OPSs of our 5-9 hitter and the our pinch hitter in the 9th.

5. Nevin - .528
6. Odor - . 567 - Urias PH - .536
7.  Bannon - .444
8.  Chirnos - .464
9. Owings . 527

Yes, we all realize as well that the ball is dead this year so hitting is down, but good lord, that's a black hole of offense. When the team has no better option than Bannon in the 9th against a hard throwin fastball, slider guy then it tells you the roster construction is not exactly balanced.

This is not to poo-poo on the team while they've been playing pretty decent until last night, just to show the team has a wasys to go before we start shooting off fireworks and thinking the Orioles are contenders.

 

 

Ok a ways.  McKenna  with a 375 OBP probably arrives today to play left.  Adley called up sometime this week.  Hays is supposed to be out a few days.   And Urias continue to be day to day.    

Mountcastle gone for a while is a gut punch.  

[waroriole]

11 minutes ago, survivedc said:

I’ll give Nevin, Bannon and Chirinos a pass for now—Chirinos being an obvious stopgap and Nevin and Bannon auditioning for utility roles. Certainly hurts to have both the latter two in the lineup at once tho.

Shouldn’t a utility player be able to defend well at multiple positions? Nevin can play 1B. We already have 2 of those. 

[waroriole]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Ok a ways.  McKenna  with a 375 OBP probably arrives today to play left.  Adley called up sometime this week.  Hays is supposed to be out a few days.   And Urias continue to be day to day.    

Mountcastle gone for a while is a gut punch.  

You’re gonna list his OBP at .375 in his 22 PAs this year? But ignore the .301 for his career?

[oldfan]

My binoculars are still in the basement, a ways yet before that Wildcard spot comes into range.

[wildcard]

29 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Just curious. Why do you say Elias may be smart? Has he demonstrated that by doing stuff that anyone who's been around the game for a few years and had the resources wouldn't have thought to do? Has he made some decisions that appear to have been unusually wise? Has he come up with innovations that have improved the team? Has he fleeced other GMs in trades? Has he found talent deep in amateur drafts, and if so was that a result of his evaluations? Has he acquired an impressive collection of talent from other teams' scrap heaps? Anything else?

I'm not saying that he hasn't done any of these things or that he's not a real smart guy. And it may be that he was the very best guy who could have been hired for the daunting rebuild on a team controlled by Peter Angelos. After three-plus years, I really don't have a strong opinion about Elias. (I do think the way he's so dramatically deferred spending on payroll is not the best way to go about a rebuild, but I don't know whether he's stuck with that, and for the most part I'm satisfied to see how well his way works.) I can't think of anything he's done to demonstrate that he's especially smart or talented, unless you want to count lowering the bar by which his success should be assessed and putting off the vague time frame for making that assessment.

What have I missed? 

Has he fleeced other GMs in trades?   Yes, a broken down Bundy for Bradish.

Has he found talent deep in amateur drafts, and if so was that a result of his evaluations?  Well maybe not deep but paying overslot for Mayo looks pretty good right now.  That was not a mainstream move.

Has he acquired an impressive collection of talent from other teams' scrap heaps?  Yes, Mateo, Perez, Lopez, Krehbeil, Baker, Urias.

I think there are several smart things he has done:

1.  He evaluated what a mid market Baltimore team had to do to win and he has the patience and aggressiveness to pursue that goal.  Many GM start down the path of rebuilding and cave in to outside pressures along the way.  He has stuck to his focus and goals.

2) He brought Holt and Sig with him.  Holt has unify the pitching development from the majors through the minors.  And there are many stories of pitcher improvement  along the way from Means to Bradish to Tyler Wells to Bautista.  Sig has built the analytics dept from 1 to 15 or 20.  Many of the changes that have been made come from the research and analysis done in his shop.  And the coaches has been hire to translate and teach the players.  Pretty innovative stuff on the coaches hiring.

Elias says the big change in the analytics over the past five year as revolutionized player evaluation and development.  He has hired the people to change the O's organization.   That is a long way from where the O's were when he was hired.

I doubt if Peter had anything to do with his hiring.  I think it was the Sons.

Could anyone else have done it.  Probably but not to many would want to take on a complete rebuild for a low revenue team in the AL East.  Its got to be one of the hardest jobs for an MLB GM.

Is Elias perfect?  No but he  seems to be headed in the right direction over the next few year.  We should be happy about that.

  

 

 

 

 

[wildcard]

35 minutes ago, waroriole said:

You’re gonna list his OBP at .375 in his 22 PAs this year? But ignore the .301 for his career?

Yes I did.  And I am ignoring April for a lot of the players and looking at May because I think its a better assessment of their value.