Future Second Baseman

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Naw, I'm going to point out that he's not going to start the service clocks.

I think that is unlikely in the cases of Henderson and Westburg.    The O's by next spring will have graduated the offense he needs to contend.   They have the pen.  They still need to do some work on the starting staff but I think that will be the focus  of the off season.

The O's started the season this year going 6-14.  That put them in a 8 game hole.   They can't afford to do that again next year if they plan to contend.    When Adley and Grayson graduate the service clock delays will stop is my guess.

[OriolesMagic83]

I voted for Prieto, but I think the answer is Odor, unless the OP was implying that players already on the ML team are not included.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

4 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I voted for Prieto, but I think the answer is Odor, unless the OP was implying that players already on the ML team are not included.

Didn’t someone mention him going to the braves? Pure speculation?

[Camden_yardbird]

On 6/14/2022 at 11:06 PM, Flash- bd said:

I have a good feeling Vavra will surprise people and has a good chance of being our next starting 2B (whether he's traded with Westburg and Henderson right behind him, and Prieto, too, is another matter).

 

Guy hits wherever he goes (.866 OPS so far at AAA, SSS, that said), and I always bet on these high OBP players to outperform a bit their prospect ranking. Feel like he's a player that might be a bit slept on here. 

I have seen Vavra twice in minor league games and both times he struck me as a guy who just has a next level skill with the bat.  He knows what he wants to do and understands how to do it.  Tremendous contact skills.

[crowmst3k!]

54 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I have seen Vavra twice in minor league games and both times he struck me as a guy who just has a next level skill with the bat.  He knows what he wants to do and understands how to do it.  Tremendous contact skills.

Vavra would be a great option if he wasn't so fragile.  

[Frobby]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:10 AM, Sports Guy said:

Mateo shouldn’t be written down as an sort of long term option until the hitting starts to show up.  Can’t carry a sub 600 OPs bat.

Yep.   I’ll admit his fielding has been much better than I anticipated.  He makes some errors but more than makes up for those by making difficult plays.   All that’s great, but he needs to hit better.  

BB-ref and Fangraphs are pretty far apart on Mateo, 1.4 rWAR vs. 0.6 fWAR.   The former is an above average starter, the latter is a below average starter.   So, take your choice.   For me it’s very difficult for a player with a .256 wOBA to be considered an above average player no matter how good his defense is, and I see his defense as very good but not top shelf.  He’s not Andrelton Simmons out there.   
 

 

[Aristotelian]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Yep.   I’ll admit his fielding has been much better than I anticipated.  He makes some errors but more than makes up for those by making difficult plays.   All that’s great, but he needs to hit better.  

BB-ref and Fangraphs are pretty far apart on Mateo, 1.4 rWAR vs. 0.6 fWAR.   The former is an above average starter, the latter is a below average starter.   So, take your choice.   For me it’s very difficult for a player with a .256 wOBA to be considered an above average player no matter how good his defense is, and I see his defense as very good but not top shelf.  He’s not Andrelton Simmons out there.   
 

 

The 46-16 Yankees are carrying Higashioka (.541 OPS) and Kiner Falefa (.650). It is possible to be a playoff team without above average starters at every position. That said, I'd like at least positive WAR and Mateo doesn't have much room for error to provide even that level of production. He's not my preferred option, but he's an option. 

[sportsfan8703]

Mateo also steals a lot of bases. He just has to get on base more. He seems like the perfect player that should bunt for hits more. 

[Pickles]

34 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Yep.   I’ll admit his fielding has been much better than I anticipated.  He makes some errors but more than makes up for those by making difficult plays.   All that’s great, but he needs to hit better.  

BB-ref and Fangraphs are pretty far apart on Mateo, 1.4 rWAR vs. 0.6 fWAR.   The former is an above average starter, the latter is a below average starter.   So, take your choice.   For me it’s very difficult for a player with a .256 wOBA to be considered an above average player no matter how good his defense is, and I see his defense as very good but not top shelf.  He’s not Andrelton Simmons out there.   
 

 

His glove has been a revelation imo.  I remember last year when we acquired him being pleasantly surprised with his glove.  I assumed toolsy guy who can't establish himself he wouldn't be as sound as he showed himself to be- think Shawon Dunston.  But this year he's been on an entirely differently level.  Honestly, he should be in the GG conversation.

Now, that said, Sports Guy is right.  He can't be an everyday starter hitting like he is.  He's got the rest of this year to try to establish he can be better offensively.  But regardless of whether he is able to do that or not, I think he's going to be a very valuable bench player going forward at a bare minimum.

[maybenxtyr]

41 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

The 46-16 Yankees are carrying Higashioka (.541 OPS) and Kiner Falefa (.650). It is possible to be a playoff team without above average starters at every position. That said, I'd like at least positive WAR and Mateo doesn't have much room for error to provide even that level of production. He's not my preferred option, but he's an option. 

I think if Mateo could get his OPS up to .650 it would be a lot easier to justify having him on the team. It's amazing that they only have 3 negative WAR players with -.8 being the lowest I could find.

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I have seen Vavra twice in minor league games and both times he struck me as a guy who just has a next level skill with the bat.  He knows what he wants to do and understands how to do it.  Tremendous contact skills.

3 for 3 so far today, up to .357.Lefty version of DJ Lemahieu? Yes, please. 

He's already on the 40 man and has 100 AB's now at AA. Really not much holding him back.

However, he is playing CF. 

[Camden_yardbird]

5 hours ago, crowmst3k! said:

Vavra would be a great option if he wasn't so fragile.  

Plenty of teams have depended on fragile players for much larger roles.

E.g. Rendon.

[connja]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:10 AM, Sports Guy said:

Mateo shouldn’t be written down as an sort of long term option until the hitting starts to show up.  Can’t carry a sub 600 OPs bat.

Guy has been a stud on defense this year though.  That play he made yesterday was incredible.