Elias speaks from Texas

[Jagwar]

15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well you are winning right now in spite of it.

You have GRod coming back.  We will see on Hall.  Means at some point next year.

Wells has a chance to stay as a starter.

But you are in position because you have assets..money and players, to go get pitching.

People often forget about Means (I know I do sometimes). Him coming back next season almost seems like a free agent signing. 

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

But what is the plan?  I mean, I thought the plan was to build a consistent winner.  This year, they are WINNING!  They have an excellent farm system.  They have a ton of payroll flexibility.  
 

Is trading Lopez really helping with that long term plan?  Is it really crucial to add the players they did while hurting the team?  
 

It’s pretty easy to find these types of arms.  I mean, you can argue that the Phillies gave up as good, if not a better arm than Povich, for David Robertson.  These guys are always readily available.

Acquiring them isn’t some byproduct of rebuilding or anything else.  You likely could have just drafted 3 arms like Povich.  
 

I’m not saying he is some worthless player or that the package is filled with worthless players but i keep thinking that the point of being a GM is to win and here you are, winning, and you are going to trade a big reason why for guys who can’t help you for at least 2 years and quite frankly are likely to never help you.  
 

In starting to really wonder what Elias values here.  Is it winning or is it building a farm system.  Right now, it’s building a farm system.  That’s obvious.  Winning isn’t the priority in 2022.  He isn’t bringing up better players.  He still has bad players on the roster getting real playing time.  
 

They didn’t go out and get anyone.  Elias claims they tried but they failed.  Failure is all that matters.  Trying means nothing.  His recent quote is, they will try to sign players.  How reassuring is that to you guys?  
 

Ownership is in shambles.  Do we really think they are going to bring in anyone that matters?  He is all of a sudden going to start taking away from his precious farm system?  
 

Honest question.  If the arms acquired are easy to find as you say above.  Then what is the big deal with moving one that was easy to find?  

And this is not just directed at you, but a lot of the folks complaining about Elias and who he traded, what he got, who he plays at 2B etc, and how he is crushing this team, are the exact same people who lambasted him for the opening day lineup being unworthy of the major leagues and that this was simply still tanking and pocketing money for the Angelos family.

The dugout crushing event has resulted in 3 straight road wins.  It is opening space for the guys we are looking to see come up and get a chance.  The Orioles are still just as likely to win a wild card today as they were last week.

I agree with you SG that the O's are not going to the playoffs this year.  I mean, they might, they could.  But feeding the hunger of the team and continuing to build towards being expected to win is the goal and I think there is very good progress.

The failure you describe above though is quite debatable.  The Orioles are popping and you have been saying winning isn't important to Elias since 2022 started...am I wrong?  And yet, here they are.

I think it is pretty clear, the guy (Elias) knows what he is doing.  This isn't a team that is trying to lose, or even not trying to win.  This is a team that IS winning and is doing it consistently while breaking in some new players and setting up more for on the way.

Elias just made a three team deal, and flew down to Texas and literally proclaimed that it is lift off from here. And that he was looking forward to buying some players in the off season.

I don't think Elias is perfect by any means.  But I am comfortable saying what I have said since the end of last year.  It is time to see results at the Major League level.  I am going to judge him on that not what the farm system is rated.  If he can win, and then compete, and perhaps get us to the pinnacle, all while continuing to keep the farm stocked.....well, he is gonna get a statue...that's what's gonna happen.

Of course it's rose colored glasses and koolaid drinking to think that way today.  But that was the job description at the onset of the total rebuild.  It is clear that he does not have a bunch of media support and clearly is not hailed by many here.  But it is just possible, that this Elias guy is in fact the type of Elite that you often refer to.  

And I am not saying he is.....really what I am saying, is after 30 years with just a few glimpses of good.  If it is going to take great for us to see the promised land.....it's gonna look like this guy.  And if he is not the guy, well, that is depressing.

So I hope Elias is the guy, just as I hope Adley, Grayson, etc are they guys.  So far, he has done pretty much exactly what he said. Im impressed, and hungry.  Show me more.

Sorry for the rambling take.

 

[Sports Guy]

Lopez IS performing.  Yes, he was a readily available arm but he was a readily available arm that is performing at the highest level and he is performing at a level of a legit AS, not just one who got a spot because of a silly rule.

That’s the difference and it’s a HUGE difference.

And Elias didn’t put together this team thinking it would win this year.  

Edited August 4, 2022 by Sports Guy

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Elias thinks he has that upside, not that he is.

OToH, who the hell knows if he actually believes that.  He has to be positive about these guys publicly for PR reasons.  
 

I have no doubt he likes him.  But that is irrelevant to me. Cade Povich and guys like him are always available in trades.   Maybe you are getting him before he reaches untouchable status.  That’s always possible.  Pitching prospects come out of nowhere a lot. But right now, he’s a readily available arm that has good upside but that’s not what you get for a higher echelon closer with a lot of service time left…not as your main piece.

Well, maybe.   As far as starting prospects go the O's  have Grayson............Maybe Johnson.    DL Hall is certainly not breezing through AAA as a starter.   His control problems are real.   What other starter prospects project into the starting rotation? 

Elias drafts Nolan McLean on the 3rd round and can't sign him.

Prospect ranking are about who the prospect projects to be not who they are right now.  So who is right about Povich projection is important.

[Sports Guy]

 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, wildcard said:

Well, maybe.   As far as starting prospects go the O's  have Grayson............Maybe Johnson.    DL Hall is certainly not breezing through AAA as a starter.   His control problems are real.   What other starter prospects project into the starting rotation? 

Elias drafts Nolan McLean on the 3rd round and can't sign him.

Prospect ranking are about who the prospect projects to be not who they are right now.  So who is right about Povich projection is important.

His ranking isn’t important.  His performance is.  

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

His ranking isn’t important.  His performance is.  

Sure, his performance will determine his ranking but Elias and Callis certainly do not agree right now.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, wildcard said:

Sure, his performance will determine his ranking but Elias and Callis certainly do not agree right now.

Yea but who cares?  What is your point? I mean, obviously Elias likes Povich.
 

 

[sportsfan8703]

Elias had the balls to trade Mancini and Lopez. 
 

Vavra should be playing everyday now. If he’s performing after a week then two questions come up… should he be leading off?  Should he play 2B and Stowers be the one to “replace” Odor?  
 

Elias did say they talk about Stowers everyday. 
 

Seperate from those, I’d like to see us continue to add to our roster if we could pick up Lamet or Smith, if they are released. 

[EdwinRip]

Callis also has Kevin Smith at 18 and Diaz at 25.  I wouldn’t put much stock into these mid season team lists, especially after the team’s top 10.

[RZNJ]

The organization is in a good place and that's an understatement.   Of course, we have to see what players like Vavra, Stowers, Henderson, Westburg, Cowser, Ortiz, etc. etc. etc. do in the majors but things are looking up.    I'm crossing my fingers on Bradish which is a big keys towards the rest of the season.  But, as someone else pointed out, we are getting decent starting pitching without the additions of Rodriguez and Hall, losing our #1 starter (Means) and now losing the new #1 starter (Wells).    Can Bradish, Voth, Watkins, Lyles, Kremer, take us through the rest of the season?

Next year, we've got GRod, assuming health.   Hall in some capacity.   Means back at mid season (although I don't think we should expect the old Means right away).  Then you've got what you want from this year's rotation.    Any holes in the starting lineup look ready to be filled from within.   The bullpen is coming back and needs one or two additions which again, can probably come from within.   All signs point to Elias buying a starter this offseason.   What kind of starter?   Got me.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, EdwinRip said:

Callis also has Kevin Smith at 18 and Diaz at 25.  I wouldn’t put much stock into these mid season team lists, especially after the team’s top 10.

Great point.    Smith and Diaz shouldn't be on a top 30.    I mean there is absolutely no justification for having Kevin Smith at 18 in our system. NONE.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Great point.    Smith and Diaz shouldn't be on a top 30.    I mean there is absolutely no justification for having Kevin Smith at 18 in our system. NONE.

I’m not sure there is justification  for him to be in the top 50.

[Jagwar]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

And Elias didn’t put together this team thinking it would win this year.  

And you know Elias believe that ... how? Just because you don't think the team wasn't put together to win doesn't mean Elias didn't think that.  

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

And you know Elias believe that ... how? Just because you don't think the team wasn't put together to win doesn't mean Elias didn't think that.  

Because no one could have thought that.

Its not realistic to believe this group of arms would be this good.

Im sure he believed that last years team wasn’t as bad as the record was and I’m sure he felt with Adley and others coming up, the talent would be better.  I’d bet he realistically felt there would be a 10-20 game improvement and, let’s face it, we basically all felt that way.

But a borderline contender?  A 500 team?  No way he believed that.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Sports Guy