Players' View of Service Clock Manipulation

[Bahama O's Fan]

Have any players ever shared their thoughts on management doing this? I feel like they wouldn't be too happy with it, but I have never heard any past or present players speak on it. I would not appreciate it. I wonder if they hold that against a team when their time is up and they consider resigning with their current team or moving on.

[Chelsea_Phil]

I think I deep down they are all pissed off about the manipulation. I would be.

[OriolesMagic83]

47 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Have any players ever shared their thoughts on management doing this? I feel like they wouldn't be too happy with it, but I have never heard any past or present players speak on it. I would not appreciate it. I wonder if they hold that against a team when their time is up and they consider resigning with their current team or moving on.

I know Kris Bryant came out against it and actually had a grievance about it.  I definitely like the new draft pick compensation rules. 

[DrungoHazewood]

I think it's like all of the stuff that happens before their MLB career starts.  It's just what you have to accept to become a MLB player.  They'd rather not eat peanut butter sandwiches three times a day in A ball, they'd rather not share an economy apartment with six of their teammates in Muskegon, Michigan.  They'd rather they weren't drafted by the Royals when they grew up in Miami.  But once they get to the show and start making $100k a month it's all good, and why shouldn't the next group have to do the same things I did?  Especially when the guys who're mostly likely to have service time manipulated are also the ones most likely to have 12-year careers where they make $100M.

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think it's like all of the stuff that happens before their MLB career starts.  It's just what you have to accept to become a MLB player.  They'd rather not eat peanut butter sandwiches three times a day in A ball, they'd rather not share an economy apartment with six of their teammates in Muskegon, Michigan.  They'd rather they weren't drafted by the Royals when they grew up in Miami.  But once they get to the show and start making $100k a month it's all good, and why shouldn't the next group have to do the same things I did?  Especially when the guys who're mostly likely to have service time manipulated are also the ones most likely to have 12-year careers where they make $100M.

really good post and I agree.

[Pickles]

I mean, it's negotiated.  It's literally the basis of labor rights.

I can get being annoyed by it, particularly if you are one of the rare few it affects, such as Adley, but getting righteous about it, as some posters here have, is the height of absurdity.

[Hallas]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think it's like all of the stuff that happens before their MLB career starts.  It's just what you have to accept to become a MLB player.  They'd rather not eat peanut butter sandwiches three times a day in A ball, they'd rather not share an economy apartment with six of their teammates in Muskegon, Michigan.  They'd rather they weren't drafted by the Royals when they grew up in Miami.  But once they get to the show and start making $100k a month it's all good, and why shouldn't the next group have to do the same things I did?  Especially when the guys who're mostly likely to have service time manipulated are also the ones most likely to have 12-year careers where they make $100M.

Well the PA did negotiate some concessions around service time manipulation in the current CBA.

 

It was pretty clear though that the owners were digging their heels in pretty hard when it came to this.  And it makes sense why they would, the ones that worth manipulating the service time are most likely to have the biggest arb awards and biggest FA contracts, as you said.  I'm not sure what the current CBA is going to do about it other than maybe curb the most egregious cases.  The incentive for manipulating service time is pretty high.

 

It's worth noting that the players association maybe didn't fight as hard for it as they might have, because service time manipulation primarily affects people that are future members of the players association, as opposed to current members.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Hallas

[vab]

I don't know how they feel but for me I wouldn't even really think about it. Just keep your head down and be ready whenever the call comes. If you want to file a grievance or something how are you going to prove it anyway unless some team is dumb enough to say it publicly?  

[Frobby]

It doesn’t do any individual player any good to complain about it publicly.  Just gets him labeled as a malcontent.   I seem to remember that in Living on the Black, Mike Mussina made some comments on how his debut had been delayed for service time reasons.  I forget how the rules worked back then - his debut was in early August after throwing 122 innings in AAA that year.  

[Just Regular]

Its hate the game, not the playa stuff.     If everybody is playing put the Get Out of Jail money on Free Parking, you don't get any direct benefits going "That's not right" when your piece lands there.

I hope the RoY draft pick incentives this CBA are sufficient to get Gunnar and Westburg here soon, and maybe Cowser next Opening Day.    I'll also take the random outcome of any 27 pitch DL Hall assortment on the chance we get 21 strikes, at the risk of 21 balls.

Boy would the Adley-Grayson private text thread be interesting to get to see.

The Cubs and Bryant were close to a perfect storm of Deep Rebuild + Rare Talent.    At the end of the day in Year 5.95-6.95, and at the end of a strained relationship, they got a couple Top 150-ish type guys for the 2022 surplus Bryant provided above his ~1/20 final Arb year.

The position and age dynamics with Adley are I think fascinating.    Grayson, Gunnar and Holliday may all never reach his level on a Per Year basis, and still rate ahead as priorities for the Club to procure FA seasons for the end of the decade.    

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Just Regular

[Ridgway22]

2 hours ago, Hallas said:

..........

It's worth noting that the players association maybe didn't fight as hard for it as they might have, because service time manipulation primarily affects people that are future members of the players association, as opposed to current members.

This, I believe is "Bingo"

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, Pickles said:

I mean, it's negotiated.  It's literally the basis of labor rights.

I can get being annoyed by it, particularly if you are one of the rare few it affects, such as Adley, but getting righteous about it, as some posters here have, is the height of absurdity.

Adley was injured at the beginning of the year. He probably would have been affected but he wasn't, actually. Unless you believe he should have already been up in '21. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Adley was injured at the beginning of the year. He probably would have been affected but he wasn't, actually. Unless you believe he should have already been up in '21. 

Of course he should have been.

He also should have been up earlier this year.

He should have been up once his rehab was over, Elias kept him down past that.  Maybe he had a legitimate reason, maybe he was trying to avoid super 2, maybe he was trying to sabotage his RoY campaign.

[Pickles]

22 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Adley was injured at the beginning of the year. He probably would have been affected but he wasn't, actually. Unless you believe he should have already been up in '21. 

I think in a Pre-Free Agency world, Adley would have been up here in 2021.  If not earlier, honestly.

[jdwilde1]

2 hours ago, Ridgway22 said:

This, I believe is "Bingo"

I was going to say the same thing.  If Kris Bryant, et al, are going to be upset with anybody it should be the vets in their clubhouse. Literally, the players’ union has negotiated away rights/earning power of the guys not yet in the league.  But that’s never going to happen, especially since it’s a small percentage of players who are affected by the practice, and the ones who are affected will often sign big deals in the future anyway. 
 

The best way to remove any type of roster manipulation is to tie free agency to the draft class rather than the service time.  I don’t know what the numbers should be, but something like 10 years for HS players and 8 years for college.