Cubs trade DeRosa to Indians; Does this mean Pie for Olson back on??

[PaulBako]

Why would the Mets do that? They give up their 4th/5th starter and most of their corner IF/OF depth to get a player who plays the same position as Castillo and they're still stuck with Castillo.

Add Luke Scott to the trade?

[Stotle]

Jordan was said to have thought of Matusz and Smoak equally yet chose Matusz, most likely IMO because MacPhail wanted him to take a pitcher.

Didn't Jordan's quote say something to the extent of "I was going back and forth and then realized 'What more could I want? Matusz has everything you'd look for.'" I know it was close (I had them back-to-back as well, if I recall) but the man made a decision. I agree with the decision, but I can understand others wanting Smoak instead. I disagree that it's a matter of right or wrong in any event. Both are comparable talents. I think a "Matusz" is a little more valuabel than a "Smoak" so that's my decision. But it wouldn't have been a "mistake" to pick Smoak. I think to claim Matusz over Smoak was a mistake over-simplifies everything that goes into scouting and projection.

Now, drafting a lesser talent over Smoak would have been a mistake....like, say, Yonder Alonso or Gordan Beckham.

[bigbird]

You're free to criticize the FO all you like, but I think starting a new thread once a day on the same subject is bound to draw this type of attention to you.

There are dozens of threads on this site I never enter. If people don't want to view what I post they too don't have to enter that thread. It's not hard. It's a way for some of us who haven't drank the juice to vent about what's not happening. We're all Oriole fans. It should not become personal.

[Lucky Jim]

There are dozens of threads on this site I never enter. If people don't want to view what I post they too don't have to enter that thread. It's not hard. It's a way for some of us who haven't drank the juice to vent about what's not happening. We're all Oriole fans. It should not become personal.

It's personal when derisive comments like this are tossed around. Many of the folks you're arguing with (I'm not counting myself) are among the most objective on this site. That should tell you something. And lumping them together with a comment like that is pretty ridiculous.

[allstar1579]

Didn't Jordan's quote say something to the extent of "I was going back and forth and then realized 'What more could I want? Matusz has everything you'd look for.'" I know it was close (I had them back-to-back as well, if I recall) but the man made a decision. I agree with the decision, but I can understand others wanting Smoak instead. I disagree that it's a matter of right or wrong in any event. Both are comparable talents. I think a "Matusz" is a little more valuabel than a "Smoak" so that's my decision. But it wouldn't have been a "mistake" to pick Smoak. I think to claim Matusz over Smoak was a mistake over-simplifies everything that goes into scouting and projection.

Now, drafting a lesser talent over Smoak would have been a mistake....like, say, Yonder Alonso or Gordan Beckham.

Completely agree. I wanted them to take Smoak over Matusz at the time, but in the end they were about equal talents. The difference however is in that it is easier to find talent and production at 1B, whether by drafting them, or moving another player to 1B, while finding a SP is a bit tougher, you can't move a 3B to SP and expect him to succeed too much.

[TGO]

There are dozens of threads on this site I never enter. If people don't want to view what I post they too don't have to enter that thread. It's not hard. It's a way for some of us who haven't drank the juice to vent about what's not happening. We're all Oriole fans. It should not become personal.

I agree with you there 100% and you should note that I have not said anything to/about you personally. What you're doing is certainly your right so long as it's within the rules of the board, which is up to the mods.

I just think if you're going to put your opinions out there to the degree that you are you have to be willing to take a little bit of heat. This board is more respectful than any other one out there but even here there is some give and take.

[mweb]

Why would the Mets do that? They give up their 4th/5th starter and most of their corner IF/OF depth to get a player who plays the same position as Castillo and they're still stuck with Castillo.

Yeah, we'd have to take back Castillo. However, they're probably going to sign Lowe, and could sign another starter, so Niese isn't quite as important to them if you consider that.

I would think something like Roberts for Castillo, Flores, and Havens would be good. Not sure if they'd do that, but we're talking about a SS/3B and a SS, so positions they have a great young major leaguers in. Flores is only 17 though, so has a ways to go.

[allstar1579]

So within the last 48 hours or so he's trade Marquis, traded DeRosa, signed Miles, and is on the verge of landing Bradley. Tell me what AM has done since the Bedard trade that trumps this.

Yeah, he has moved some pieces around, but I wouldn't say he's really moved a step forward. He gained some payroll room, swapped out RF's and signed a backup INF, we gained about as much by dealing Bradford for lunch at the airport Chili's. (DeRosa's salary - Miles salary) DeRosa and Bradley's production will come out about the same in the end, and Bradley will probably take that $10 mil Marquis was making.

In the end, these aren't major moves to improve a team, it's trimming fat and dealing luxury, we need to compare apples to apples here, so you can compare McPhail's moves to Bowden in DC if you want, 2 non-competing teams that are rebuilding and a few years off from contention.

[TGO]

Yeah, we'd have to take back Castillo. However, they're probably going to sign Lowe, and could sign another starter, so Niese isn't quite as important to them if you consider that.

I would think something like Roberts for Castillo, Flores, and Havens would be good. Not sure if they'd do that, but we're talking about a SS/3B and a SS, so positions they have a great young major leaguers in. Flores is only 17 though, so has a ways to go.

How good are Flores and Havens? You would have to get a very, very significant return to trade Roberts and take on Castillo's salary.

[allstar1579]

Barely, but I'll admit I was thinking his trade followed the Bedard trade (old age).

My point still stands. Other than dump salary and downgrade at 2B, I don't think Hendry accomplished a whole lot these last 24 hours.

But he didn't downgrade at 2B, DeRosa was slotted for RF, where Bradley will replace his production, and Fontenot will stay at 2B. Dumping salary basically was just fiddling to offset the money it would take to replace DeRosa's production. I don't get it personally, I think they were better off just keeping DeRosa, and dumping Marquis for whatever, maybe Davearm has some insight.

[PaulBako]

How good are Flores and Havens? You would have to get a very, very significant return to trade Roberts and take on Castillo's salary.

Flores has comparisons to Miguel Cabrera.

His potential is really high.

[PaulBako]

Yeah, we'd have to take back Castillo. However, they're probably going to sign Lowe, and could sign another starter, so Niese isn't quite as important to them if you consider that.

I would think something like Roberts for Castillo, Flores, and Havens would be good. Not sure if they'd do that, but we're talking about a SS/3B and a SS, so positions they have a great young major leaguers in. Flores is only 17 though, so has a ways to go.

Here is the Mets top 12 that I composed:

1. Fernando Martinez- The young outfielder played the AA level at age 19. He had a .287 BA and 8 homers in 352 AB's. The young outfielder excites many scouts and could be a 30 home run hitter. The Mets chose to keep him over Carlos Gomez to obtain Johan Santana.

2. Wilmer Flores- A MLB comparison of Miguel Cabrera should get people very exciterd. The 17 year old SS hit .310 with 8 home runs for short season low A ball. Those are good numbers for a guy who is only 17. He might eventually switch positions.

3. Jon Niese- The 22 year old lefty had a good year in AA, posting a 3.04 ERA in AA Binghampton. He could even be a candidate to start in the Mets rotation in 2009.

4. Brad Holt- A pitcher who had a good season in 2008 with the Brooklyn Cyclones after being taken in the supplemental round for the loss of Tom Glavine. With 14 starts in SS ball, Holt had a 5-3 record with a 1.87 ERA and 96 strikeouts. Holt has a great fastball and could be the Mets best pitching prospect if only he develops secondary pitches.

5. Jefrey Marte- Another one of the Mets young hispanic prospects, Marte hit .325 in the GCL league. Scouts should watch out for him in 2009, as he could have a great year and become one of the Mets top prospects.

6. Eddie Kunz- The Mets got Kunz as a sandwich pick in the 2007 draft. He was a closer at Oregon State University. He had 27 saves with a 2.79 ERA as Binghampton's closer. Though, he did poorly in the Arizona fall league, having a 10.93 ERA in 2 saves and 2 losses.

7. The Mets top 1B prospect Mike Carp had a powerful year in 2008, hitting 17 home runs with a .299 batting average in double A Binghampton. He was a good surprise in the Mets orginazation this year.

8. Reese Havens- The second base prospect hit .247 with Brooklyn this year. Those are not the best numbers, but Havens has good potential and could be one of the best second base prospects in 2009. He did have good college numbers with the university of South Carolina, hitting .359 with 18 home runs. He has very good power potential for a second baseman.

9. Ike Davis- He has dissapointment written all over him after his season in Brooklyn. The powerful first baseman hit only .256 with 0 home runs. The Mets drafted Davis for a reason: he was a complete masher with Arizona State. In Ike's junior year, he hit .385 with 16 home runs and 76 RBI's. The Mets really saw a different Ike Davis in SS ball than when he was in college.

10. Cesar Puello- yup. Another Met 17 year old hispanic prospect. The outfielder hit .305 with a home run on the GCL Mets. He has great sped and little power and might be suited in a corner outfield position.

11. Scott Moviel- A 20 year old 6'11 (WOW) right hander who played for the Savannah Sand Gnats and St. Luis Mets. With Savannah, he had a 3.38 ERA and with St.Luis he had a 4.43 ERA, which is still good for a 20 year old. Expect good numbers out of him in 2009.

12. Jenry Mejia- Another hispanic, except he isn't 17 (he is 19) who did well in the Mets farm system. In SS Brooklyn, Mejia posted a 3.49 ERA. He is primarily a fastball pitcher, and may compete with Brad Holt for the best fastball in the orginazation. Though like Holt, he dosn't have many secondary pitches.

[Hank Scorpio]

I just read it on Roch's blog... The Warehouse is closed.

Gotcha. Didn't have a chance to search for it at work.

[allstar1579]

I agree with this… which is why I will always be interested how Matusz vs G. Beckham works out.

I'm with you, I wanted Beckham over Smoak and Matusz, but I can live with more SP depth.

[Hank Scorpio]

So within the last 48 hours or so he's trade Marquis, traded DeRosa, signed Miles, and is on the verge of landing Bradley. Tell me what AM has done since the Bedard trade that trumps this.

How much better are the Cubs?