Orioles Hangout Orioles MVP

[emmett16]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

16-24 before Adley got here. 
66-53 since Adley got here.  

Pretty much sums it up.  

[Moose Milligan]

39 minutes ago, Frobby said:

16-24 before Adley got here. 
66-53 since Adley got here.  

Yeah, not a coincidence. I voted for him. 

[survivedc]

6 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't know about that. He seems to understand a lot of English because when he's been interviewed, he understands the questions but answers in Spanish like most of the Latin players.

It’s true with the interviews, but whatever the reason if he’s going to be the shortstop I want him to want to be in those mound visits. Just interesting that the rookie 3B is joining in every time and he isn’t.

[Morgan423]

On 10/1/2022 at 4:39 PM, owknows said:

Had a pretty good year.  Wasn't expected to.

A lot of heart. Exactly the kind of performance I really love.

 

But a game over .500 isn't really MVP material on this team any more.

You pay attention to pitcher W-L?  It's one of the most meaningless, pointless stats in baseball.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

List of 2022 Orioles sorted by fWAR (rWAR in parentheses):

Rutschman, 4.9 (5.0)
Mullins, 3.2 (3.7)
Mateo, 2.7 (3.5)
Urias, 2.6 (3.6)
Santander, 2.6 (2.3)
Hays, 1.7 (2.2)
Kremer, 1.6 (2.9)
Lyles, 1.5 (1.0)
Bautista 1.4 (2.6)
Mountcastle, 1.4 (1.2)
Mancini, 1.3 (1.9)
Voth, 1.1 (1.8)
McKenna, 1.0 (0.6)
Baker, 1.0 (1.0)
Wells, 0.9 (1.2)
Watkins, 0.9 (0.0)
Henderson, 0.8 (0.9)
Bradish, 0.7 (0.2)
Perez 0.6 (2.8)

Always interesting to see the fWAR next to rWAR. The biggest difference is that I see  rWAR seems to value defense and relief pitching more than fWAR. Biggest delta between the two was Cional Perez where rWAR had him at 2.8 but fWAR had him at just 0.6 for a 2.2 WAR difference. I think fWAr is a little low on relief pitching because they Bautista at just 1.4 vs the more realistic in my mind 2.6 rWAR.

But at the same time, does anyone think Urias was worth 3.6 WAR after playing just 118 games this season and slashing .248/.305/.414/.720? His defense was good but not that good. 

 

[CharmCityHokie]

11 minutes ago, survivedc said:

It’s true with the interviews, but whatever the reason if he’s going to be the shortstop I want him to want to be in those mound visits. Just interesting that the rookie 3B is joining in every time and he isn’t.

But why? He's one of the best defensive players in the game this season, he's been with the team the entire season, he knows the pitchers and the setup. Mound visits are not QB huddles setting up screen passes. Henderson has barely drank his cup of coffee this season, he should be up there listening and learning. I think you're making a mountain out of a pitching mound. 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by CharmCityHokie

[owknows]

3 minutes ago, Morgan423 said:

You pay attention to pitcher W-L?  It's one of the most meaningless, pointless stats in baseball.

yeah I pay attention to W-L.

Calling it meaningless is one of the most overused cliches in baseball.

[survivedc]

9 minutes ago, CharmCityHokie said:

But why? He's one of the best defensive players in the game this season, he's been with the team the entire season, he knows the pitchers and the setup. Mound visits are not QB huddles setting up screen passes. Henderson has barely drank his cup of coffee this season, he should be up there listening and learning. I think you're making a mountain out of a pitching mound. 

 

The shortstop should be the captain of the infield right? Most teams that have veteran shortstop types have the shortstop coming in for mound visits. You don’t think it’s strange at all that Henderson and Urias and even Mountcastle come in for mound visits and he doesnt?

I love Mateo, I’ve been for him all this season and last. I’m certainly nitpicking, but isn’t that the point? Henderson seems like an excellent defender and obviously has a special bat. If I’m Mateo I’m trying to find every edge I can to solidify my place as the Shortstop. 

[survivedc]

Just now, survivedc said:

The shortstop should be the captain of the infield right? Most teams that have veteran shortstop types have the shortstop coming in for mound visits. You don’t think it’s strange at all that Henderson and Urias and even Mountcastle come in for mound visits and he doesnt?

I love Mateo, I’ve been for him all this season and last. I’m certainly nitpicking, but isn’t that the point? Henderson seems like an excellent defender and obviously has a special bat. If I’m Mateo I’m trying to find every edge I can to solidify my place as the Shortstop. 

Meant Odor not Urias, but him too I guess.

[EddeeEddee]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Lyles did a fine job eating 179 innings and not getting blown out on a regular basis.  He did what he was hired to do. 

But I find it hard to even give honorable mention in the O's MVP voting to a guy with a 90 ERA+, a 4.42 ERA and something like the 220th-best season by an O's starter since they moved from St. Louis 68 years ago. A typical Orioles season sees three starters who were more valuable than Lyles was this year, and "typical" includes all those years from 1954-60 and 1986-present where the season was over sometime in early June.

Outside of the newly friendly confines of OPACY he had a  5.25 ERA and allowed 20 homers in 96 innings.

I'm kind of on the fence about Lyles.  I'd like to see him come back next year unless they find an obvious innings eater replacement for him.  But I'd have to go with Kremer above Lyles in terms of MVP ranking to the team.  He took a huge step forward this year.

[rm5678]

8 hours ago, forphase1 said:

I could be wrong,  but at times I get the impression the interpreter isn't needed as much as they let on.   Kinda like some of the Spanish speaking players used him when they really don't need him.  I don't know if they are just more comfortable that way or trying to keep him employed.  Doesn't really matter,  just interesting.

I know you're talking about Mateo, but Dan Connolly recently posted this comment about Cionel Perez and Santander:

"Cionel can speak English. He watches movies in English. He converses with his teammates. He just isn't comfortable being interviewed in English for fear that he says the wrong word or phrase. That's very common. Anthony Santander speaks better English than many Americans."

Edited October 3, 2022 by rm5678

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Morgan423 said:

You pay attention to pitcher W-L?  It's one of the most meaningless, pointless stats in baseball.

For this purpose, perhaps it’s not completely worthless.   It doesn’t measure how good he was, but perhaps it has some bearing on how valuable he was.  If the team doesn’t win when you pitch, does your good pitching have value?

Now, of course it can’t be the only thing you look at.  

[foxfield]

14 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Lyles did a fine job eating 179 innings and not getting blown out on a regular basis.  He did what he was hired to do. 

But I find it hard to even give honorable mention in the O's MVP voting to a guy with a 90 ERA+, a 4.42 ERA and something like the 220th-best season by an O's starter since they moved from St. Louis 68 years ago. A typical Orioles season sees three starters who were more valuable than Lyles was this year, and "typical" includes all those years from 1954-60 and 1986-present where the season was over sometime in early June.

Outside of the newly friendly confines of OPACY he had a  5.25 ERA and allowed 20 homers in 96 innings.

That's fair enough.   I would not have thought there have been 3 pitchers more valuable than Lyles in the last 5 years. 

[Sports Guy]

11 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Always interesting to see the fWAR next to rWAR. The biggest difference is that I see  rWAR seems to value defense and relief pitching more than fWAR. Biggest delta between the two was Cional Perez where rWAR had him at 2.8 but fWAR had him at just 0.6 for a 2.2 WAR difference. I think fWAr is a little low on relief pitching because they Bautista at just 1.4 vs the more realistic in my mind 2.6 rWAR.

But at the same time, does anyone think Urias was worth 3.6 WAR after playing just 118 games this season and slashing .248/.305/.414/.720? His defense was good but not that good. 

 

FWAR values defense but they use OAA, which makes it better in terms of how they value defense.

fWAR also seems to do a better job of evaluating park effects.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Sports Guy

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

For this purpose, perhaps it’s not completely worthless.   It doesn’t measure how good he was, but perhaps it has some bearing on how valuable he was.  If the team doesn’t win when you pitch, does your good pitching have value?

Now, of course it can’t be the only thing you look at.  

Please let us not go down this rabbit hole of "if your team doesn't win enough you don't have any value" lest we end up arguing for 1991 AL MVP Cecil Fielder.

If you're good, you have value.  If you aren't, you don't.