Suggested Deal w/Marlins

[Biggin]

Santander and Urias for Lopez.

I cannot watch Santander play the outfield anymore and would love for others to get the DH ABs (Cowser, Frazier, Westburg/Frazier, Vavra, Adley, etc.)

Am I the only one that thinks we need to sell high on Santander?

[E-D-D-I-E]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s getting to the point where Lopez is getting severely overrated by fans.

Getting? Had 2 good months. June, July, August, September, not good. His ERA climbs .50 in the AL East. We are truly getting desperate imo. I realize there are only so many pitchers but I would prefer to aim higher. A #3 we have.

I would rather have Luzardo, who showed improvement all through the season and it ain't close.

Edited December 22, 2022 by E-D-D-I-E

[E-D-D-I-E]

1 minute ago, Biggin said:

Santander and Urias for Lopez.

I cannot watch Santander play the outfield anymore and would love for others to get the DH ABs (Cowser, Frazier, Westburg/Frazier, Vavra, Adley, etc.)

Am I the only one that thinks we need to sell high on Santander?

No you aren't. I agree with your post. I would rather play the kids and am not a fan of a full time DH.

[HakunaSakata]

Lopez + Rogers >> Mullins. This website is a good one to use when vetting possible trades - https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/

For context, based on estimated trade value Mullins = Lopez and Santander = Rogers. 

[HakunaSakata]

8 minutes ago, E-D-D-I-E said:

Getting? Had 2 good months. June, July, August, September, not good. His ERA climbs .50 in the AL East. We are truly getting desperate imo. I realize there are only so many pitchers but I would prefer to aim higher. A #3 we have.

I would rather have Luzardo, who showed improvement all through the season and it ain't close.

2 good months? So we're ignoring his 2021 and 2020 seasons? Lopez is a fine pitcher and a potential work horse if he can shake the injury prone tag. That said, if we can get them cheaper I would prefer Luzardo or even E.Cabrera over Lopez. I'd be willing to take a flyer on Rogers too, but I'd rank him fourth among the four and would only be interested if the Marlins were willing to sell him at a discount.  For example, Santander for Rogers is a trade I'd do (then sign Conforto). 

[HakunaSakata]

13 minutes ago, Biggin said:

Santander and Urias for Lopez.

I cannot watch Santander play the outfield anymore and would love for others to get the DH ABs (Cowser, Frazier, Westburg/Frazier, Vavra, Adley, etc.)

Am I the only one that thinks we need to sell high on Santander?

Nope. I'd sell him in heartbeat because 1) he's older and 2) he really can't play the field and 3) I'm not sure his improved walk rate is sustainable. I also think there are FA bats still available (like Conforto) who could potentially replace Santander's numbers. Conforto's a much better OBP guy too, it's just a question of whether or not he can pass a physical. 

[clapdiddy]

I think I'd like to make a prospect deal for Rogers and keep Mullins.

[Jammer7]

I think Mateo is more likely to be dealt than Mullins in the near future. I am somewhat intrigued by Rogers, and I think there is much more there. 

Although this thread is about possible deals with the Marlins, what do we add to Mateo to get Max Fried from the Braves? Would they be interested? Would you do a deal with Mateo, DL Hall and maybe a Hudson Haskin to Atlanta for Fried? 

[E-D-D-I-E]

46 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

2 good months? So we're ignoring his 2021 and 2020 seasons? Lopez is a fine pitcher and a potential work horse if he can shake the injury prone tag. That said, if we can get them cheaper I would prefer Luzardo or even E.Cabrera over Lopez. I'd be willing to take a flyer on Rogers too, but I'd rank him fourth among the four and would only be interested if the Marlins were willing to sell him at a discount.  For example, Santander for Rogers is a trade I'd do (then sign Conforto). 

Lopez is a solid starter. 20 and 21 equal a single season and he was very solid. His second half of 22 was not good. His starts against the AL in 22, were not good. (save for 1 against Oak). He gets a good bit of fanfare out here and I don't see it. Kremer was FAR more consistent and no one is singing his praises. They are both at the age where they can still improve. Like you, I would still prefer Luzardo, who got better as the year went on and has big K rates and an opponent BA of under .200 last year. To me, if the "window" is starting, Rogers and Cabrera are big risks. They have upside, but do we want to "wait" to find it?

[jamalshw]

The problem with making a deal like that is exactly why a deal like that may be possible. And that is, there aren't many good options to replace Mullins in CF. The lack of CF options at this point in the offseason likely drives up Mullin's value a bit. 

I know there are mixed opinions on Lopez and Rogers and for good reason, but they're slated (per Roster Resource) as the #2 and #5 starter in a pretty strong rotation. Both are young enough to dream on and while Lopez's 2022 wasn't as impressive as his 2021, he's been a solid starting pitcher since 2020 and his 108 ERA+ last year isn't all that impressive, but would have been better than all but Kremer and Voth amongst our starters last year and he did it over 32 starts compared to 21 and 17, respectively. 

As for Rogers his 2022 was awful, but his All-Star rookies season gives you plenty to dream on particularly when a sophomore slump is rather common. Last year was bad, but his peripherals indicate it wasn't quite as bad as it appeared (though not good either). Going into his age-25 season, he gives us another young pitcher with upside to dream on while we are loaded with young position players, but a bit lacking on pitching. He's also a lefty and could benefit from our ballpark dimensions.  

I wouldn't hate a rotation of Rodriguez, Lopez, Kremer, Bradish, Gibson and Rogers. Going 6-deep would allow Grayson a chance to be skipped on occasion and his innings better managed. Beyond those six, we then have Wells go back to the pen where he was amazing in 2021. Voth becomes a swing guy. Hall can either be converted to a lockdown back-end guy or work on command at AAA. The quanity in the rotation also allows them to bump Rogers or someone else from the rotation if he needs a bit more work to find himself again (though I'm not sure on his option status). 

The issue, however, is we are then left with a hole in CF without a good internal option to fill it. I haven't seen Cowser in person, but all reports are he's a corner guy at the big league level despite most of his minor league games coming in CF. And while Hays can fill in on occasion, I don't know that he's a starting level CF. Meanwhile, McKenna doesn't have the bat to play CF everyday. Vavra may be an option as I know he played there in the minors some, but don't know about his defense either or how his bat will hold up playing everyday. So, we do have some options, but none that are a perfect fit UNLESS Cowser's defense in CF is better than I've seen advertised. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

I was just looking for an example.

I saw someone on Twitter the other day say it would take Cowser, Westburg and I believe Hall to get him.

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

I think Mateo is more likely to be dealt than Mullins in the near future. I am somewhat intrigued by Rogers, and I think there is much more there. 

Although this thread is about possible deals with the Marlins, what do we add to Mateo to get Max Fried from the Braves? Would they be interested? Would you do a deal with Mateo, DL Hall and maybe a Hudson Haskin to Atlanta for Fried? 

They would and should laugh at that offer.

They aren’t trading Fried.

[orioles119]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Looks like a repeat of 1989. Look it up. It was freezing everywhere that Christmas. 

So the Reds are going to win it all next year?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

They would and should laugh at that offer.

They aren’t trading Fried.

Not for that trade package at least. DL Hall and Hudson Haskin aren't going to cut it as prospects to land Fried in a trade. I think the Braves are planning to sign Fried to an extension, but if they do trade him it's going to cost the Orioles a more valuable prospect(s) in return. 

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

They would and should laugh at that offer.

They aren’t trading Fried.

I laughed it off initially too. I thought this was his walk year, but it looks like he has two years left. So, yeah, back to laughing at my offer. We have the depth, and we need a guy to flip the switch as a #1. Lopez doesn’t do that for me. Maybe include Bradish or Kremer and some A ball prospect. Their system is not deep at all. Just a thought, not a likely one.