Orioles acquire Ryan O’Hearn

[LTO's]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Dude, Odor was -0.4 WAR last year.  Vavra was 0.1 in significantly less playing time.  

I'm not saying I think Vavra would have been an all-star or anything but I think he'd have been a good bit better than Odor.  I mean, it's a low bar to hurdle but I'd much rather have given Vavra 426 at bats instead of Odor.  

I can't believe we're even having this conversation.

 

Odor was worth 0.4 fWAR. Vavra 0.0. His numbers as a starter (.635 OPS) are not any different than Odor's season numbers (.632). We're also talking about 80 ABs for Vavra. Sure, if given the choice I think towards the end I would've rather watched Vavra but i'm not under any delusions that he was this massive upgrade that Hyde and Elias were too stubborn to play. It probably isn't even worth 1 win over the course of the season. 

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Dude, Odor was -0.4 WAR last year.  Vavra was 0.1 in significantly less playing time.  

I'm not saying I think Vavra would have been an all-star or anything but I think he'd have been a good bit better than Odor.  I mean, it's a low bar to hurdle but I'd much rather have given Vavra 426 at bats instead of Odor.  

I can't believe we're even having this conversation.

 

 

1 minute ago, LTO's said:

Odor was worth 0.4 fWAR. Vavra 0.0. His numbers as a starter (.635 OPS) are not any different than Odor's season numbers (.632). We're also talking about 80 ABs for Vavra. Sure, if given the choice I think towards the end I would've rather watched Vavra but i'm not under any delusions that he was this massive upgrade that Hyde and Elias were too stubborn to play. It probably isn't even worth 1 win over the course of the season. 

Folks if you are going to get in a WAR war you need to specify what flavor you are using.

Odor was -.4 rWAR and .4 fWAR.

[eddie83]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not sure why you're attempting to move the goalposts.  You asked who I'd have preferred to play over Odor last year, I told you Vavra.  You seemed to struggle to comprehend why that was, so I explained it to you.

Thankfully, Odor isn't here, even though you were defending him by wondering out loud who could have taken his place and done a better job.  

Where does Vavra project to play right now?  Hell if I know, we were talking about last season.  But I wouldn't be mad if he was a utility infielder for the 2023 season.  

I’m not moving goalposts. I’m tired of talking about last year. This idea that Odor was some sort of a referendum on how the Orioles operate. I’m not defending Odor, I’m saying they didn’t believe Vavra is a glove. 
 

I’m not the one who keeps bringing him up. The very player you and others wanted to play over him would not currently be on this roster. I have a difficult time reconciling how the clubs depth is not superior over last year. The very player most wanted looks like will not even be on the roster. 

[jabba72]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

Folks if you are going to get in a WAR war you need to specify what flavor you are using.

Odor was -.4 rWAR and .4 fWAR.

Which do you prefer. I have a preference for rWAR but I've heard others say fWAR is more accurate.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Odor was worth 0.4 fWAR. Vavra 0.0. His numbers as a starter (.635 OPS) are not any different than Odor's season numbers (.632). We're also talking about 80 ABs for Vavra. Sure, if given the choice I think towards the end I would've rather watched Vavra but i'm not under any delusions that he was this massive upgrade that Hyde and Elias were too stubborn to play. It probably isn't even worth 1 win over the course of the season. 

Well Odor was worth -0.4 rWAR and Vavra was worth 0.1 rWAR.  I'm not sure if you think fWAR is the flex you think it is.  I'm not sure if rWAR is the flex I think it is either but I think we can both admit that Vavra isn't the second coming of Roberto Alomar and the Orioles were stupid for not playing him more.

That said, I place a higher value on OBP vs. power and I've had gladly taken Vavra's .340 OBP (smaller sample size, I realize but you can't deny his approach was better) over Odor's .275.  

Massive upgrade?  Probably not.  Upgrade?  Yes, I think he would have been.  And, most importantly, it would have saved us from having to watch Odor for a whole year.  In other words, play the kid with the upside who might surprise you, not the aging vet who's looking for his last day in the sun.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, because we picked up Adam Frazier, Franchy Cordero and Ryan O'Hearn.  If Nomar Mazara sets foot into Camden Yards this season, I might break a window at the Warehouse.

Here's a potential Sunday punt lineup, you tell me if you like it:

Frazier:  SS

Cordero:  RF

Urias:  3B

Santander:  DH

Vavra:  2B

Hays:  LF

O'Hearn:  1B

McKenna:  CF

McCann C

 

 

  Come on. This is just for attention. They sit their 4 best players on one day Gunnar-Adley-Mountcastle-Mullins. If any team did that you would have a similar type of a lineup. Plus you have O’Hearn and Cordero on the same roster. What do they do differently to justify that? 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

Which do you prefer. I have a preference for rWAR but I've heard others say fWAR is more accurate.

I like whichever one better illustrates the point I am making at the time.

I'd just like it to be shown which is being used.  In this case you had conflicting data.  Neither of you were wrong but it read as if one was correcting the other.

[eddie83]

The entire point I’m trying to make is that by having better depth there are no excuses to run the Odor’s, Chirinos and Nevin’s on the field as much. That’s the damn point. Nothing more. 

[RZNJ]

2 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I was in the bathroom hanging a clock, when I fell down, hit my head, and IT came to me!

No not the flux capacitor, but the O's master plan for 2023.

They are not attempting to make the playoffs, they are trying to have the ML comeback of year player!!

Now all of the moves make sense.

I was expecting the broken clock analogy relative to you.  

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I’m not moving goalposts. I’m tired of talking about last year. This idea that Odor was some sort of a referendum on how the Orioles operate. I’m not defending Odor, I’m saying they didn’t believe Vavra is a glove. 
 

I’m not the one who keeps bringing him up. The very player you and others wanted to play over him would not currently be on this roster. I have a difficult time reconciling how the clubs depth is not superior over last year. The very player most wanted looks like will not even be on the roster. 

Was this not you talking about last year?

39 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Who should have played in his place? Vavra?  He would not be on most peoples projected 26 right now. 

 

[clapdiddy]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The entire point I’m trying to make is that by having better depth there are no excuses to run the Odor’s, Chirinos and Nevin’s on the field as much. That’s the damn point. Nothing more. 

Frazier > Odor   

McCann > Chirinos

O'Hearn > Nevin

I'm assuming this is the point you are trying to make.   They are likely very slight upgrades.

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The entire point I’m trying to make is that by having better depth there are no excuses to run the Odor’s, Chirinos and Nevin’s on the field as much. That’s the damn point. Nothing more. 

I think the entire point you're missing is that the depth that looks to be projected on the roster next year isn't significantly better than the Odor's, Chrinos's and Nevin's.

Like, if you can explain the difference to me in the value between Nevin and O'Hearn, I'd love to hear it.  I will admit that Frazier should be better than Odor, but it's still a dumb signing.  

[eddie83]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Was this not you talking about last year?

 

Who brought Odor to the conversation? Not me. 

[eddie83]

6 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

Frazier > Odor   

McCann > Chirinos

O'Hearn > Nevin

I'm assuming this is the point you are trying to make.   They are likely very slight upgrades.

Yes. I think that can add 3-5 wins over last years club. Is it really that difficult to see that? That’s all. I’m not saying we added Aaron Judge. There is a chance the top 2 players won’t even be in the big leagues this year. 
 

Upgrades along with the depth that started to be created going back to last year when Stowers and Gunnar were called up can benefit a team. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Yes. I think that can add 3-5 wins over last years club. Is it really that difficult to see that? That’s all. I’m not saying we added Aaron Judge. There is a chance the top 2 players won’t even be in the big leagues this year. 
 

Upgrades along with the depth that started to be created going back to last year when Stowers and Gunnar were called up can benefit a team. 

I don't and what's more if you add 3 wins to a team with 79 win talent you have a team with 82 win talent.