Westburg's Value at the trade dealine

[DirtyBird]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I imagine that was done on purpose. I'm fairly certain Wildcard believes Irvin will certainly implode by then and will be out of the rotation.

What would make you think that? I figured he just slipped Wildcard's mind in the 6 hours since his last thread started to throw shade at him.

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I imagine that was done on purpose. I'm fairly certain Wildcard believes Irvin will certainly implode by then and will be out of the rotation.

IMO the five I mentioned have higher ceilings than Irvin.  Hopefully they hit those ceilings.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

IMO the five I mentioned have higher ceilings than Irvin.  Hopefully they hit those ceilings.

It’s a long season.  They’ll all get starts, I suspect.  

[sportsfan8703]

I think it’s going to be more about what is the trade value of Mateo, Urias, and Frazier. Westburg, Norby, and Ortiz, should be in the mix with Gunnar for the 2024 team. That’s how win a WS and keep payroll down to be able to re-sign Cedric, AR, Gunnar, and Holliday. 

[Just Regular]

46 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Clearly. The question is why he thinks we need that when we have Vavra and three near MLB ready prospects to do the same thing cheaper.

It helps me understand Frazier to see him as a Vavra vote of no confidence, and less to do with Westburg.

I wouldn't say it is the favorite, but it is still possible to me Westburg makes the team and the bench is Frazier, McCann, Stowers, McKenna.     Urias starting DH.

If our position player group is as fortunate health wise as last year, those Top 11 guys (excluding McCann/McKenna there) hog almost all the PA.

I would bet in the 1st half Rest is the watchword and everyone paces toward 500 PA.    I hope Gunnar gets a crack at 700.

[Just Regular]

Westburg would not command 1.5 years of Burnes alone this July, but he (or one of the other MLB-ready Top 100 types) might represent around the value LAA might expect for 2-3 months of Ohtani, should their year break bad.

[sportsfan8703]

9 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Westburg would not command 1.5 years of Burnes alone this July, but he (or one of the other MLB-ready Top 100 types) might represent around the value LAA might expect for 2-3 months of Ohtani, should their year break bad.

Nothing personal, but if Ohtani gets traded it will be to either the NYY, NYM, or LAD. They can afford to trade away their whole farm system.  We can’t. 

[AnythingO's]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

IMO the five I mentioned have higher ceilings than Irvin.  Hopefully they hit those ceilings.

The way you phrased it, "higher ceilings", is at least supportable. However, you are implying all 5 will be functioning at those levels mid-season to enable trades. Means won't be back until July at the earliest and who knows what version of himself he will be post TJ. Hall will likely be a SP in AAA under innings limits or, failing that, being converted to RP. Grayson hasn't thrown 1 MLB inning. Kremer and Bradish have not yet proven themselves to be MLB average SPs, like Irwin has these last 2 years. I love your optimism but if you truly believe all 5 will be performing that well mid-season, please send me copious quantities of whatever you are drinking/smoking. 

[jrobb21613]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Clearly. The question is why he thinks we need that when we have Vavra and three near MLB ready prospects to do the same thing cheaper.

It doesn’t hurt to have a guy that’s had more than just a cup coffee in the big leagues especially on a very young team. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, jrobb21613 said:

It doesn’t hurt to have a guy that’s had more than just a cup coffee in the big leagues especially on a very young team. 

But does it help?

I doubt we have any data one way or another.

I think it has a lot more to do with the individuals.

[jrobb21613]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But does it help?

I doubt we have any data one way or another.

I think it has a lot more to do with the individuals.

I agree whole heartedly that it depends on the individual. 
 

Odor for instance was not great statistically but I do believe is presence in clubhouse last year helped us a lot especially with the young Latin players. 

[Just Regular]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Nothing personal, but if Ohtani gets traded it will be to either the NYY, NYM, or LAD. They can afford to trade away their whole farm system.  We can’t. 

2 months of Ohtani, if the scenario comes to pass, isn't going to cost anyone's whole farm system.    The Angels get to choose the best deal for them.

Sure, the competition vs. the mega-rich for 2024 and beyond is hopeless when money is the currency of the realm, but that will not be the case this summer.

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Nothing personal, but if Ohtani gets traded it will be to either the NYY, NYM, or LAD. They can afford to trade away their whole farm system.  We can’t. 

If we push up the bidding to force the Yanks to offer Volpe, that is a great outcome. We have the advantage of being able to outbid anyone from our depth if we choose. Yanks advantage is being able to absorb salary.

 

[btdart20]

47 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

2 months of Ohtani, if the scenario comes to pass, isn't going to cost anyone's whole farm system.    The Angels get to choose the best deal for them.

Sure, the competition vs. the mega-rich for 2024 and beyond is hopeless when money is the currency of the realm, but that will not be the case this summer.

In theory, NYM will be have budget constraints.  NYY would have to offer Volpe or a big package to outbid us.  LAD has the prospects to pace us in bidding and arms if that’s the tie breaker.  

Ohtani is at least a reasonable consideration if we’re TOR and MOO away.

[SteveA]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

The prospects aren't left handed batters.

I don't think Vavra has enough glove for Elias.

Yep, I think you have nailed it.   We might not agree with these decisions, but I believe the motivations are spot on.

With the new field configuration at OPACY and the shift being eliminated, I believe Elias believes that there is a market inefficiency in which the value of lefthanded hitters versus righthanded hitters is increasing significantly in baseball and even moreso in Baltimore, as is the value of defensive skill at 2nd base.   So getting a LH 2Bman who field pretty well is where he put his 2nd biggest chunk of offseason dollars spent.

A lot of us disagree with the decision, but I believe that's his logic.