Which O's players have the highest ceilings going forward

[HelenaEngineer]

While I think he has a significantly lower floor as well as a lower expected outcome, I think Hall has a higher ceiling than Rodriguez.

[emmett16]

57 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Haha.  Not even close.  Henderson is taller and has a bigger frame.   Holliday is maybe 6 feet tall.  I suspect he’s under by a bit.

Just so we are clear, you have more accurate measurements than professional outlets?  Just want to make sure I know who I'm arguing with.  

[emmett16]

48 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Henderson is an inch to two taller than Rutschman.  Rutschman is 2-3 inches taller than Holliday.  Holliday is listed at 6’1.  Rutschman at 6’2.  Henderson at 6’3.  If you accept those that’s a 2 inch height advantage to Henderson.   I think someone is fudging Holliday’s height.

Maybe being much taller and having a much larger frame lead to him striking out 28 times v. 12 at same level and only walking 11 times v. 25.  His larger build must have given him a disadvantage.  All the while the tiny guy out slugged the big guy, so I dunno.  Fingers crossed Holiday makes a big jump at age 20.

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Just so we are clear, you have more accurate measurements than professional outlets?  Just want to make sure I know who I'm arguing with.  

You think the heights listed are always accurate?   Look at the photo of Rutschman and Holliday.  Do you think Rutschman is only one inch taller?

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Maybe being much taller and having a much larger frame lead to him striking out 28 times v. 12 at same level and only walking 11 times v. 25.  His larger build must have given him a disadvantage.  All the while the tiny guy out slugged the big guy, so I dunno.  Fingers crossed Holiday makes a big jump at age 20.

BTW, are you talking about the FCL?   Henderson clearly showed more power at Delmarva.  I hope Holliday turns out to be a HOF player.  Bigger isn’t always better but it doesn’t hurt and Holliday will never be as big and strong as Henderson.  JMO

[emmett16]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

You think the heights listed are always accurate?   Look at the photo of Rutschman and Holliday.  Do you think Rutschman is only one inch taller?

I'd like to think the heights are accurate.  

 

Not a doctor, but I'd say a random photo taken (in which you cannot even see their feet) might not be the best determination?  But again, I'm not a doctor.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You think the heights listed are always accurate?   Look at the photo of Rutschman and Holliday.  Do you think Rutschman is only one inch taller?

Felix Bautista is listed at 190 pounds.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, emmett16 said:

I'd like to think the heights are accurate.  

 

Not a doctor, but I'd say a random photo taken (in which you cannot even see their feet) might not be the best determination?  But again, I'm not a doctor.  

Sometimes they just don't get updated.

[emmett16]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

BTW, are you talking about the FCL?   Henderson clearly showed more power at Delmarva.  I hope Holliday turns out to be a HOF player.  Bigger isn’t always better but it doesn’t hurt and Holliday will never be as big and strong as Henderson.  JMO

Yes, the only league they played at the same age (technically Holiday 6 months younger).  Holiday hit for more power in 30 fewer ABS. 

 

Edit: My bad.  Was looking at year total and got the two confused.  They had just about same amount of ABS in FCL.  

Edited February 19, 2023 by emmett16

[emmett16]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Felix Bautista is listed at 190 pounds.

And 6' 5''.  Maybe Holiday is taller? 

[RZNJ]

1. Gunnar Henderson, SS

Video

Drafted: 2nd Round, 2019 from Morgan Academy HS (AL) (BAL)

Age	21.6	Height	6′ 2″	Weight	210	Bat / Thr	L / R	FV	65

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Hit	Raw Power	Game Power	Run	Fielding	Throw
45/50	65/70	55/70	60/55	55/60	70

2. Jackson Holliday, SS

Video

Drafted: 1st Round, 2022 from Stillwater HS (OK) (BAL)

Age	19.2	Height	6′ 1″	Weight	180	Bat / Thr	L / R	FV	60

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Hit	Raw Power	Game Power	Run	Fielding	Throw
25/60	50/60	25/60	50/50	40/50	55

 

Fangraphs agrees with me.  The only future tool category Holliday wins is hit.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

1. Gunnar Henderson, SS

Video

Drafted: 2nd Round, 2019 from Morgan Academy HS (AL) (BAL)

Age	21.6	Height	6′ 2″	Weight	210	Bat / Thr	L / R	FV	65

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Hit	Raw Power	Game Power	Run	Fielding	Throw
45/50	65/70	55/70	60/55	55/60	70

2. Jackson Holliday, SS

Video

Drafted: 1st Round, 2022 from Stillwater HS (OK) (BAL)

Age	19.2	Height	6′ 1″	Weight	180	Bat / Thr	L / R	FV	60

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Hit	Raw Power	Game Power	Run	Fielding	Throw
25/60	50/60	25/60	50/50	40/50	55

 

Fangraphs agrees with me.  The only future tool category Holliday wins is hit.

You do know that Gunnar didn’t have those ratings when he was Hollidays age, right?

[emmett16]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

1. Gunnar Henderson, SS

Video

Drafted: 2nd Round, 2019 from Morgan Academy HS (AL) (BAL)

Age	21.6	Height	6′ 2″	Weight	210	Bat / Thr	L / R	FV	65

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Hit	Raw Power	Game Power	Run	Fielding	Throw
45/50	65/70	55/70	60/55	55/60	70

2. Jackson Holliday, SS

Video

Drafted: 1st Round, 2022 from Stillwater HS (OK) (BAL)

Age	19.2	Height	6′ 1″	Weight	180	Bat / Thr	L / R	FV	60

Tool Grades (Present/Future)

Hit	Raw Power	Game Power	Run	Fielding	Throw
25/60	50/60	25/60	50/50	40/50	55

 

Fangraphs agrees with me.  The only future tool category Holliday wins is hit.

Guess we will see how it plays out and revisit it again next year after the scouting grades are adjusted.  Good problem to have.  I still think Holiday has the higher ceiling and will agree to disagree  

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

You do know that Gunnar didn’t have those ratings when he was Hollidays age, right?

I would have to go back and look.  I’m sure they adjust from year to year but this is what they are guessing the future grades are on each player given the data they have now.  Do you disagree with that?

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I would have to go back and look.  I’m sure they adjust from year to year but this is what they are guessing the future grades are on each player given the data they have now.  Do you disagree with that?

Yes..the data they have now.

Im sure Holliday’s ratings are as high or higher than Gunnar at the same age.

Gunnar’s have unquestionably changed. They are higher than last year. I believe Frobby pointed that out.  
 

They always change.

Hollidays ceiling today is higher than Gunnar at similar ages because Gunnar wasn’t thought to be a guarantee to stay at SS…Holliday is. That makes him the more valuable all around guy.

But Gunnar’s ceiling has gotten higher over the last few years. Holliday has to show improvement and development to do the same thing.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Sports Guy