Has Vavra played his way into a starting 2B job?

[Brooks The Great]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

Keep an eye on Westburg and Ortiz in AAA.   If they start hitting they could be promoted at some point.   They are probably both better than Vavra as a starting 2B.

Not sure why you say "if they start hitting" when it comes to Westburg. He did nothing but hit last season, and this season he's already hit 3 HR and has an OPS over .800. 

Westburg should have already been on the major league roster last season after the trade deadline.

Westburg should take McKenna's spot on the roster and start against every single LHP (and start as regularly overall as possible) so that we never have to see McCann DH ever again.

Westburg's bat would lengthen the lineup, and he's a natural leader. This team is going to take another step up once he's promoted, and I hope Elias makes the right move with Westburg immediately. Call the man up.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

Not sure why you say "if they start hitting" when it comes to Westburg. He did nothing but hit last season, and this season he's already hit 3 HR and has an OPS over .800. 

Westburg should have already been on the major league roster last season after the trade deadline.

Westburg should take McKenna's spot on the roster and start against every single LHP (and start as regularly overall as possible) so that we never have to see McCann DH ever again.

Westburg's bat would lengthen the lineup, and he's a natural leader. This team is going to take another step up once he's promoted, and I hope Elias makes the right move with Westburg immediately. Call the man up.

Westburg had the service time issue to begin the season.   That will be completed tomorrow.   

Apparently Elias wants to see more from him with the bat.  Tony has pointed out that he was streaky last year.   I am a Westburg fan.   Hope he find his way to the majors.   I just don't know how  it will happen.

 

[eddie83]

All this focus on offense and nothing on defense.

Is he capable of being an everyday second baseman with the glove? I can see where he can fit fine as a utility player. Issue with this club is the infield depth already on the team. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, owknows said:

I didn't call Tony Gwynn a comp.

I cited him as an example of a player that had a high OBP, but didn't hit for power.. and had a fruitful career.

Ichiro of course being another.

There have been many.

All of whom serve to indict your point that "He won’t last as a MLer without showing that power. "

Vavra has a career ISO of .069.   Do you have any examples of successful major leaguers with an ISO that low?  I don’t know of any.  

So, it is completely correct that Vavra won’t last as a major leaguer unless he shows more power.  That doesn’t mean he has to have even average power.  Just some.  I’m guessing a .115-.125 ISO would do the trick.  He exceeded that in the minors and I think he can do it in the majors if given the opportunity.  But no, .069 won’t cut it.

 

 

[spleen1015]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Vavra has a career ISO of .069.   Do you have any examples of successful major leaguers with an ISO that low?  I don’t know of any.  

So, it is completely correct that Vavra won’t last as a major leaguer unless he shows more power.  That doesn’t mean he has to have even average power.  Just some.  I’m guessing a .115-.125 ISO would do the trick.  He exceeded that in the minors and I think he can do it in the majors if given the opportunity.  But no, .069 won’t cut it.

 

 

I present to you Rafael Belliard! 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/rafael-belliard-110841?stats=career-r-hitting-mlb

[Pickles]

Just now, spleen1015 said:

I present to you Rafael Belliard! 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/rafael-belliard-110841?stats=career-r-hitting-mlb

That's a blast from the past.

Not a good comp though.  Belliard could really pick it at SS, and Vavra's below average everywhere.

[spleen1015]

Just now, Pickles said:

That's a blast from the past.

Not a good comp though.  Belliard could really pick it at SS, and Vavra's below average everywhere.

First, it was a joke. Second, you're moving the goalposts.

The statement was "Do you have any examples of successful major leaguers with an ISO that low?  I don’t know of any."

Now, it would be questionable whether or not Belliard was a successful major leaguer.

[jamalshw]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Vavra has a career ISO of .069.   Do you have any examples of successful major leaguers with an ISO that low?  I don’t know of any.  

So, it is completely correct that Vavra won’t last as a major leaguer unless he shows more power.  That doesn’t mean he has to have even average power.  Just some.  I’m guessing a .115-.125 ISO would do the trick.  He exceeded that in the minors and I think he can do it in the majors if given the opportunity.  But no, .069 won’t cut it.

 

 

Agreed. To dig into his guys that didn't show power, Gwynn's career ISO is .120. Now, Ichiro was .091 (though there's plenty of evidence to suggest he could hit for more power if he choose to). That .091 is still much higher than the .069 for Vavra, not to mention the speed and bat control advantages Ichiro has over Vavra. 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, spleen1015 said:

First, it was a joke. Second, you're moving the goalposts.

The statement was "Do you have any examples of successful major leaguers with an ISO that low?  I don’t know of any."

Now, it would be questionable whether or not Belliard was a successful major leaguer.

I know it wasn't a serious comp; I was just pointing out that even if you can find someone "successful" with Vavra levels of power, they will have skills that  made that possible that he clearly doesn't.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

That's a blast from the past.

Not a good comp though.  Belliard could really pick it at SS, and Vavra's below average everywhere.

Yeah, I need to walk back my statement just a bit.  There has been the occasional decent player with a .069 or worse ISO.  Generally it’s reserved for top defenders at premium positions.  Myles Straw is a current example.  Career ISO of .066 but good enough to get a multi-year contract running through 2026.  But Vavra doesn’t fit that profile.  

[NCRaven]

I think the point is that you have to stretch to see successful players given Vavra's current ML production.  Comps like these only prove how hard it is to find anyone with comparable numbers that had decent careers.  And comparing any marginal skillset player to a Hall of Famer is just silly.

[sportsfan8703]

22 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Vavra has a career ISO of .069.   Do you have any examples of successful major leaguers with an ISO that low?  I don’t know of any.  

So, it is completely correct that Vavra won’t last as a major leaguer unless he shows more power.  That doesn’t mean he has to have even average power.  Just some.  I’m guessing a .115-.125 ISO would do the trick.  He exceeded that in the minors and I think he can do it in the majors if given the opportunity.  But no, .069 won’t cut it.

 

 

Well .069 is pretty funny, but I’m also 12.  

I just don’t see what Vavra brings to the table. It was really fun for a week or so last year when he was an OBP machine and we actually took the lead for a playoff spot, but that time is over. David Mewhan and Howie Clark had some great starts too. 
 

I like Vavra as a person. He gave a great interview about getting diagnosed with an auto immune disorder that led to his injury history. He’s battled back from lots of injuries, but he’s just not a major leaguer. 
 

He has no arm. No athlecism. No speed. He doesn’t scare opposing pitchers. I just don’t see. I’d rather have Stevie Wilkerson or Jace Peterson on our bench. 

[emmett16]

3 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

Not sure why you say "if they start hitting" when it comes to Westburg. He did nothing but hit last season, and this season he's already hit 3 HR and has an OPS over .800. 

Westburg should have already been on the major league roster last season after the trade deadline.

Westburg should take McKenna's spot on the roster and start against every single LHP (and start as regularly overall as possible) so that we never have to see McCann DH ever again.

Westburg's bat would lengthen the lineup, and he's a natural leader. This team is going to take another step up once he's promoted, and I hope Elias makes the right move with Westburg immediately. Call the man up.

I think he will be up the minute they get the extra year of service time.

 

Edit: sees WCs post, I somehow missed, and realizes today is the day. *I think he’ll be up very soon.  

Edited April 14, 2023 by emmett16

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I think he will be up the minute they get the extra year of service time. 

To be clear, that has happened as of today.  Still think that?

[emmett16]

49 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

First, it was a joke. Second, you're moving the goalposts.

The statement was "Do you have any examples of successful major leaguers with an ISO that low?  I don’t know of any."

Now, it would be questionable whether or not Belliard was a successful major leaguer.

Arraez ISO .099 / Sprint speed age 25 year 26.4 / OAA -2 

Has a stronger Arm.