Westburg is near ready

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

A month and 17 days.  ST matters.   Elias has shown that with Grayson.

It matters for some and not for others.   For veterans it means nothing.   Grayson had a job to lose and he lost it.

[sevastras]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

A month and 17 days.  ST matters.   Elias has shown that with Grayson.

I’m pretty sure you have made your point. While I hope you are you’re correct, playing Odor, Nevin, Aguilar and Phillips last year over Stowers and Vavra tells me otherwise. If they would have played those two last year, we would have a way better idea of the kind of players they will be before the next wave of prospects came up. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

My message is  "Wake Up" and understand what is happening now.

Elias as more information now.   A month more.

Elias just sent Grayson to AAA.  Why?  Because he had 5 starters that are better.   In SPRING TRAINING.    You think ST does not matter?   It mattered to Elias and Grayson.

A month ago Elias didn't know how Westburg would do in ST.  Now he does.  878 OPS.  

A month ago Elias didn't know how Frazier would do in ST.  Now he does.  597 OPS.

I would think that Frazier would want to impress his new manager, coaches and teammates.  And that he would know he is competing for playing time at 2nd base with Urias, Vavra, Westburg and Ortiz.   597 is not going to cut it.

 ST mattered to Elias and Grayson about starting.   Why would it not matter about 2nd base?

I think Frazier has 17 days to turn it around.   Do I know its 17 days?  No.  It could be 30 days.  But Elias knows that last year the team went 7-14 in April.  And he does not want that to happen again.

Elias is in win mode.   He will play his best players.  And he is going to pay the 8m whether Frazier starts a lot or a little.   The important thing is to win.

 

Bro, he's not paying 8 mill to Frazier to flush down the toilet.  It's just not going to happen.

 

[Frobby]

In my experience, it typically takes 6-8 weeks before significant roster moves occur, except in case of injury.  And there are sound reasons for that.  Players need to play without worrying that one bad week or two won’t affect their status.  I’ve watched for years as fans called for this player or that to be replaced based on a cold start, and it never happens as fast as some fans want.  

So now we come to Frazier, in whom the O’s invested $8 mm.   The guy is a respected veteran with a track record.  He is not going to lose playing time if he has a slow 17 days.  Do I think he’ll get as long a leash as Odor?   $8 mm vs. $700 k would say yes, but I don’t necessarily think so, because the alternatives are further along in their development.   But, I don’t want to get ahead of myself, because I’m expecting Frazier to play significantly better than Odor did last year.  So, we’ll just have to see.

Elias did address Westburg specifically yesterday:

“He’s really close,” Elias said. “He’s had 400 plate appearances in Triple-A, he’s had this really good spring training now under his belt. He continues to open eyes. When we’ve viewed our big-time prospects to be ready  - Adley, Gunnar - we bring them up, and so far they’ve done pretty well, and a big part of it is because I feel like we know what we’re doing with these promotions. We want guys of this caliber to come up and stay up.

“I don’t like sending guys up and back. We’ve had to do it with DL Hall just because of some circumstances with his health and his innings and all that stuff. But I want these guys to come up and stay, and I expect that’s going to be the case for Westburg, I expect that it’s going to be soon, and I expect he’s going to do really well. But I feel like we have a systematic way of assessing when these guys are ready to come up and impact the team and be there to stay. We’ll let the track record kind of speak to that.”

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/rodriguez-lester-o-hearn-cordero-and-westburg-among-orioles-camp-cuts

So, we’ll see what they do, but I’m guessing 6-8 weeks before we see Westburg, unless there are injuries or trades.   And how much he plays once he’s up remains to be seen.

 

 

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Bro, he's not paying 8 mill to Frazier to flush down the toilet.  It's just not going to happen.

 

Elias wants to win this season.  In the evaluation of money vs winning with talent I think winning will be more important.  

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias wants to win this season.  In the evaluation of money vs winning with talent I think winning will be more important.  

Elias believes in Frazier or he wouldn't have given him 8 million.   He's not about to admit he was wrong after 17 days.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Elias believes in Frazier or he wouldn't have given him 8 million.   He's not about to admit he was wrong after 17 days.

I agree.  Also, anyone who ever took Psych 101 knows about cognitive dissonance.  $8 mm makes it far more likely that Elias will see any early struggles as just a SSS blip rather than something that spurs him to action.  

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree.  Also, anyone who ever took Psych 101 knows about cognitive dissonance.  $8 mm makes it far more likely that Elias will see any early struggles as just a SSS blip rather than something that spurs him to action.  

Its all about winning.  If Frazier struggles and the team wins it gives Frazier more time.  But if Frazier struggle and the team is not keep pace in the division then Frazier's time will be shorter.

Of course if Frazier plays well there is no need for a change.

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Its all about winning.  If Frazier struggles and the team wins it gives Frazier more time.  But if Frazier struggle and the team is not keep pace in the division then Frazier's time will be shorter.

Of course if Frazier plays well there is no need for a change.

What kind of meltdown are you going to have if/when we're 60 games into the season and Frazier's hitting .205 and doesn't appear to be going anywhere?

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

What kind of meltdown are you going to have if/when we're 60 games into the season and Frazier's hitting .205 and doesn't appear to be going anywhere?

He won’t be the only one having a meltdown if that scenario occurs.   

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Its all about winning.  If Frazier struggles and the team wins it gives Frazier more time.  But if Frazier struggle and the team is not keep pace in the division then Frazier's time will be shorter.

Of course if Frazier plays well there is no need for a change.

If it was all about winning, this team would have done a lot more this offseason.

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He won’t be the only one having a meltdown if that scenario occurs.   

The meltdowns will be occurring as soon as Frazier goes 0-4 and the Orioles lose a baseball game, basically. 

[yark14]

56 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

What kind of meltdown are you going to have if/when we're 60 games into the season and Frazier's hitting .205 and doesn't appear to be going anywhere?

If that is the case, you can drop me off at the psych ward.

[deward]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Elias believes in Frazier or he wouldn't have given him 8 million.   He's not about to admit he was wrong after 17 days.

I think we have enough of a track record at this point to say that, for better or for worse, Elias is very stubborn about sticking to his plans. I'll be shocked if he phases out Frazier at any point before the all-star break, regardless of how poorly he may play.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

He won’t be the only one having a meltdown if that scenario occurs.   

I've already had enough of a meltdown over his signing in the offseason, I'm full prepared for however terrible he will be and to have Elias keep trotting him out there.