Cal Ripken wishes they would put Gunnar Henderson at SS and leave him alone.

[backdoorslider]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

You ask a lot of questions. Hell if I know the answers. 
 

But it’s nice to have options. 

 

True. It is Saturday morning and it's my day off. I'm absolutely loaded on coffee right now and amped. Mind and body is going 100 right now. About to head down to the basement and get this workout in. Start pumping some serious iron.

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

If Holliday wasn’t in the organization, I would agree with him.  

I do agree with him,  even with Holiday.  I believe that Holiday will be a star, but it's very risky to determine how to handle your MLB team based on the potential of your prospects.  I think we are getting burned with that right now,  as I think Elias did less on the pitching side of trades and free agency as he expected some of the young guys to step up, and so far that's hasn't happened.  Use Gunnar as the primary SS, and if he has to slide to 3rd in 2 years or so because Holiday is beating down the door,  then so be it.   But I think Cal is right, and we are doing a disservice to Gunnar by not letting him focus os SS.  There are other reasons (Mateo, etc) but Holiday really shouldn't be a factor at this point imo.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I do agree with him,  even with Holiday.  I believe that Holiday will be a star, but it's very risky to determine how to handle your MLB team based on the potential of your prospects.  I think we are getting burned with that right now,  as I think Elias did less on the pitching side of trades and free agency as he expected some of the young guys to step up, and so far that's hasn't happened.  Use Gunnar as the primary SS, and if he has to slide to 3rd in 2 years or so because Holiday is beating down the door,  then so be it.   But I think Cal is right, and we are doing a disservice to Gunnar by not letting him focus os SS.  There are other reasons (Mateo, etc) but Holiday really shouldn't be a factor at this point imo.

Holliday will be the starting SS by 2025.

I don’t want to put Henderson there and then move him.  We also have Ortiz, who is probably a better defensive SS than Gunnar as well, not that Gunnar is bad by any means.

I would rather stick him at third and not move him and let him reach the GG potential he has over there.

[spleen1015]

1 hour ago, backdoorslider said:

 

This. I don't want to second guess Elias, but nobody else in this thread besides me has pondered what the hell Elias is doing with the left side of the infield and nobody has even attempted to offer an explanation for his plan. We have Urias, Mateo, Vavra, Frazier, Henderson and then Holliday waiting in the wings as our presumptive franchise SS. 

 

Only two men can play 3B and SS. You basically have all these guys here and so of them very highly touted prospects. You have a gold glove 3B and a hot SS in Mateo off to an excellent start. And it's jam packed. 

 

What is up with this organziation's boner with left side of the infield players. Somebody has to actually play OF, 1B, 2B. Luckily Mounty has really stepped up and given us production at 1B so far this year. But I cannot understand what's going on here? What the hell are we actually doing here? I just wish I could ask Elias this question "What. Are. We. Doing". I don't know. 

 

Seems to me we could trade a surplus of left of the infield players and prospects for some quality pitching. It's getting weird to me. It's like we are hoarding left side of the infield players for apparently no reason other than Elias' massive boner for the position.

Maybe it's because the subject has been beaten to death in other threads, before you got here.

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

Maybe it's because the subject has been beaten to death in other threads, before you got here.

Can I get an amen.

[jabba72]

 Mateo is the best SS the team has at the moment. If Mateo was struggling with the bat I'd say bench him but he isnt right now.

Yes we are loaded at SS, but that doesn't mean you replace the top SS you presently have. 

[Morgan423]

This kind of thing always resolves itself one way or another.  Commonly by trading off the extra players at a logjammed position, or by having some of those players pick up different positions. 

The team has plenty of options and directions it can go on this, and when the time comes, they'll pick one and execute it.  I'm not really tremendously worried about it.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Morgan423
typos

[Sports Guy]

While Mateo is hitting and assuming there is no defensive drop off, he can be the SS with the way the team was constructed. 
 

But once he goes back to being his normal no hit self, I would be fine replacing him with Ortiz, assuming he is healthy and performing.

[Just Regular]

Holy sorry Brooksie, this isn't going to get Cal invited to Sarasota.

Mateo's continuing to do great, Orlando Arcia and Miguel Rojas are hurting themselves, Elvis Andrus, Lenyn Sosa, Jake Burger and Hanser Alberto are the White Sox infield.

The trade for pitching could still come off the top of the deck.     This morning Mateo is the Oriole B-Ref shows along with Adley in the Top 10 of AL Position Player WAR.

Would we take Tim Anderson for Jorge Mateo today?

I wouldn't mind Gunnar getting a little more Iron Man treatment at the 3B position.

[RZNJ]

The funny thing is is that Gunnar looks better at SS than 3B so far.   He definitely has had issues with his accuracy at 3B.   Anyway.

1. I don’t believe any decisions about the 2023 team have or should have anything to do with Jackson Holliday.  I do not even know that he (Holliday) is a better SS than Henderson.   He could be the future 2B.  Who knows.

2. Elias went with the 4 man infield rotation for depth and to hedge their bet on Mateo.   If Mateo actually doesn’t revert to bad Jorge you’ve either got an all-star caliber SS with 3 years of service time or a tremendous trade chip.

3. The plan was to rotate Henderson at SS and 3B.   Instead of thinking it’s a bad thing it might actually be a good thing.  They can keep all 4 players fresh.   Also, if Henderson was just handed the 3B job and we only had 3 infielders instead of four he’d be feeling even more pressure to perform.

4. Gunnar will be fine once he starts realizing he’s just a contributor and doesn’t need to be the star of the team.  One he stops trying to hit the ball a mile, he’ll start hitting the ball a mile.  Try less!

[Otter]

11 hours ago, Fiver6565 said:

These guys including Gunnar moved around a lot in the minors. It’s a purposeful plan and he’s used to it. It’s having zero impact on him if you ask me. He’s 21 and was anointed as ROY before the season even started. He’s pressing, it’s as simple as that. 
 

And also Mateo is playing his butt off and deserves to stay right where he is. 

I agree that switching positions probably shouldn't have an impact on his hitting.  However, constantly switching positions of young players will IMO definitely impact their ability to develop defensively.  Gunnar has every physical tool you could want in an infielder (athletic, fast, good hands, good feet, great arm); there's no reason he shouldn't be a GG 3B if given reps and good coaching.

[orioles22]

3 hours ago, backdoorslider said:

 

What is the plan here? Mateo is a free agent in 2026. So let him play out his arb years and keep paying him more and more money? Is Mateo the future long term solution at SS? Is Mateo the Orioles shortstop for the next 7-8 years? If so are we going to sign him long term? What are we doing with Urias? He's a gold glover at 3B and cannot even get regular starts at 3B. The #1 prospect in baseball is being bounced around like a pinball machine. Frazier is making $8 million dollars and not to ride the bench. Even Vavra is showing a little bit of juice. Then of course Holliday ETA is 2025 or even late 2024. So, I'm bashing Elias, I just want an answer from him. What are we doing? What is the actual plan here besides complete chaos every night with lineup and position shuffling. 

What Major League general manager announces the plan for who he is trading and who is playing where three years from now. I think  the probable plan is Holliday plays short in 2025 or 2026. Who cares how much we pay the best defensive shortstop in the league in his arbitration years while he is still young and in his prime. If we let him go in 2026, no one is hurt. I hope we use that money to extend Holliday after we've already extended Adley and Gunnar. I doubt we extend Mateo, but that's OK because someone else will be paying him as he slows down.

[foxfield]

3 hours ago, spleen1015 said:

Maybe it's because the subject has been beaten to death in other threads, before you got here.

The problem of course, is people want 5 year answers 14 games into the season and Elias, whether he makes good moves or not isn't looking at the short term with the do or die attitude that seems prevalent here.

The Orioles are going to succeed in '23 only if they pitch.  There is enough talent to win and compete now, but if the pitching does not improve it's going to be hard.  I don't know if Elias is going to make great moves, good moves, ok moves or terrible moves.  But he has enormous talent from which to improve the pitching.

In a perfect world he would move Hays, Santander, Mateo and maybe Mountcastle for a really good 2 year SP and a potentially good 4-5 year pitcher and some bull pen pieces.  And the O's could just start bring people up.  But this ain't fantasy ball.  The likelyhood is he is going to have to move some young talent.  The good news is we have it.

This is a good thing.  And it is going to take some time.  But mostly it is going to take some patience to see what develops as not only this season progresses but even beyond.

Now if we want to focus our impatience on something productive....Maybe we can focus on getting some of our core signed to extensions....

In the meantime, we are two really bad outings from being right in the thick of things.

Edited April 15, 2023 by foxfield

[Roy Firestone]

16 hours ago, Chaka Garcia said:

He did get divorced awhile back and had to sell his mansion for a lose.

 

Cal sold his home to Adam Jones, and it was not a loss...financially...

[jrobb21613]

Whether it's third or short I wish they'd pick a position and leave him there.