Dodgers are getting desperate at SS

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

The fly in the punch is "What ML pitcher are you hoping to get from the Dodgers who will help the O's win this year?"  Beyond Gunnar/Jackson (if we're talking the whole org), none of the SS options in the org is a lock to return a current ML TOR SP.  Mateo is the only other potential SS who comes close at this point.

I'm already crossing off Julio Urias, Dustin May, CLayton Kershaw, and Walker Buehler off the list of SPs the LAD are willing to trade.  Do we really want Gonsolin when he's healthy?  Or Syndergaard (if so, why didn't we just sign him as an FA)?

So then I see no incentive for us to consider a trade with them at this time.

IMO we are beyond trading good Major League players like Mateo for long shots or maybes. We should now be in the buyers category no longer sellers.

We are 1 to 2 really good starting pitchers from being in the conversation for serious contention. I hope that our energy as an org is being spent on how to get to that place now, as opposed to trying to make mismatched trade that don’t do anything to get us closer to that goal.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

He's our best defensive player.  He's our most valuable baserunner.

We would be a worse team without him.  No ifs, ands, or buts.

This is just wrong.

You don’t know how he’s going to look over the full season.  Maybe the OPS still is 650ish. Maybe the defense falls off a little bit. Maybe he has a nagging injury that limits him on the bases.

Maybe Ortiz comes up and plays at a 4 WAR/162 rate.

Maybe he’s traded for a pitcher that becomes a big difference maker for us and the difference between Mateo and Ortiz is nullified.

There are lots of factors that can go into things and acting like we are definitely worse is foolish.

[Bemorewins]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Miller, Stone, and Pepiot for Mateo. Sure. 

What are the realistic odds that they even consider that? .0001%?

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Can we trade Mateo and not hurt the major league team greatly this season?

Depends on (1) whether the players we get in return could help the Orioles this year, (2) how much of Mateo’s early success at the plate is sustainable, and (3) how Mateo’s replacement would fare.  In other words, who knows?

Here’s what we do know: Mateo has played at a 12 WAR pace in the first 17 games, and he won’t keep that up all season.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

This is just wrong.

You don’t know how he’s going to look over the full season.  Maybe the OPS still is 650ish. Maybe the defense falls off a little bit. Maybe he has a nagging injury that limits him on the bases.

Maybe Ortiz comes up and plays at a 4 WAR/162 rate.

Maybe he’s traded for a pitcher that becomes a big difference maker for us and the difference between Mateo and Ortiz is nullified.

There are lots of factors that can go into things and acting like we are definitely worse is foolish.

Sure, I could win the lottery too.  That's pOsSiBlE.

Jorge Mateo is our best defensive player.  He is our best baserunner.

Trading him is 99% likely to make the team worse for the rest of the season.

[HakunaSakata]

Mateo "might" land us one of the Dodger's top pitching prospects, but I doubt Elias has the nerve to trade him because of the potential public backlash. He should be calling and offering up Urias though. Then just commit to playing Gunnar at 3B most games. Urias is unlikely to bring us back a high level prospect though, unless we add someone else in (i.e., one of our young AAA OFers). 

[BohKnowsBmore]

36 minutes ago, Otter said:

I don't see Elias making any bold trades like this.  Based on his actions, or lack of actions, my guess is he plans to let things work themselves out regarding the logjam of infielders at AAA and the major league club.  I think he'll hold onto all the infielders and wait to see if there are injuries, poor individual performance, or poor team performance that pushes him to make moves before the trade deadline.  I'm not saying I agree, just that I think that's his M.O.  Personally, I'd prefer to trade players at deep positions at the height of their value rather than wait to see which players fail before deciding who's a keeper or not.

He just traded Hernaiz from that logjam this past offseason...

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

This is just wrong.

You don’t know how he’s going to look over the full season.  Maybe the OPS still is 650ish. Maybe the defense falls off a little bit. Maybe he has a nagging injury that limits him on the bases.

Maybe Ortiz comes up and plays at a 4 WAR/162 rate.

Maybe he’s traded for a pitcher that becomes a big difference maker for us and the difference between Mateo and Ortiz is nullified.

There are lots of factors that can go into things and acting like we are definitely worse is foolish.

I'm not necessarily siding with @Pickleshere when I say that throwing up a bunch of "maybe" scenarios doesn't make you correct here, either.

[Pickles]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not necessarily siding with @Pickleshere when I say that throwing up a bunch of "maybe" scenarios doesn't make you correct here, either.

I mean it's fair to criticize the absolutism of my statement, because that is technically incorrect, but in virtually all reasonable realities, teams don't improve in the short term by trading their best defensive player.

[HakunaSakata]

21 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Can we trade Mateo and not hurt the major league team greatly this season?

Not with the way he's playing right now (and the way our starting pitching isn't playing). If we're going to need to continue to score 6+ runs a game to win we're going to probably have to milk every last hit out of Mateo's bat that we can. Urias or Frazier, on the other hand, are certainly tradeable. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not necessarily siding with @Pickleshere when I say that throwing up a bunch of "maybe" scenarios doesn't make you correct here, either.

Here’s the difference. He is saying, we are definitely worse.

Im not saying we are definitely better.

Im saying it’s foolish to make a statement with that much certainty 17 games into the season and without knowing all future factors.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

He just traded Hernaiz from that logjam this past offseason...

That's been going great. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I mean it's fair to criticize the absolutism of my statement, because that is technically incorrect, but in virtually all reasonable realities, teams don't improve in the short term by trading their best defensive player.

Ortiz May be a better defensive player or at least his equal though.

And even if he is a downgrade, what you trade for could make up for that difference.

Just because you downgrade in one spot, doesn’t mean your team is worse of overall for it.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Sports Guy

[HakunaSakata]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

I mean it's fair to criticize the absolutism of my statement, because that is technically incorrect, but in virtually all reasonable realities, teams don't improve in the short term by trading their best defensive player.

We can't trade Mateo now. But I think that's mostly because of what he's doing offensively, not defensively. If he had regressed to being more of a defensive specialist, as some of us had expected (raises hand), then I think trading him for pitching and replacing him with another solid defensive player (in Urias) would have been worth exploring. It's a moot point now, but they should defniitely be shopping Urias. 

[BohKnowsBmore]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's been going great. 

Not really the point (although, that's something for the perpetual "do something" crowd to remember).

That said, while we're talking incredibly SSS, Hernaiz is putting up a .641 OPS in AA, so it's not like he's performing at a blue chip level either on that end of the trade.