What is our best possible infield configuration as of today?

[25 Nuggets]

6 hours ago, TommyPickles said:

Splits: OPS

Gunnar Henderson : .816 against RHP vs. .442 against LHP

Ramon Urias: .786 against RHP vs. .719 against LHP

Jorge Mateo: .659 against RHP vs. .790 against LHP

Joey Ortiz: .273 against RHP vs. .728 against LHP

Adam Frazier: .771 against RHP vs. .746 against LHP

Ryan Mountcastle: .572 against RHP vs. 1.082 against LHP

Ryan O'Hearn: .915 against RHP vs. .000 against LHP (2 ABs)

Anthony Santander: .736 against RHP vs. .960 against LHP

 

If it's a one-game, do-or-die situation right now. I'm going:

Against a RHP:

1B- Santander, 2B- Frazier, SS- Gunnar, 3B- Urias

Against a LHP:

1B- Mountcastle, 2B- Frazier, SS- Mateo, 3B- Ortiz

 

Though, I expect this to change as the season goes on. 

Based on those splits I'd go:

RHP) 1B- O'Hearn, 2B- Frazier, SS-Henderson, 3B- Urias

LHP) 1B- Mountcastle, 2B- Ortiz, SS-Mateo, 3B- Urias

Santander would be my DH for that one-game scenario because Rutschman is definitely catching.

Ortiz and Urias could be swapped at 2B/3B but I'm going with the best defenders.

[Sanfran327]

Digging this back up after the Westburg promotion.

Not a lot has changed. As I said in Frobby's thread, I wish we had a little more SS depth on the MLB roster. That Mateo really only plays 1 position kinda hurts us, but I think he's going to be more of a late defensive replacement/pinch runner player for a while now.

The new question in my mind becomes, when do we start worrying about the future... in the future?

Meaning, we are absolutely in the thick of a playoff race right now. I don't think anyone really thinks we are going to fade out of it. And I'm by no means suggesting that we mortgage the future to supplement this run, but I am absolutely advocating for prioritizing today. Let's worry about 2024 in November and maximize this roster's potential.

Things like letting Gunnar play SS for the rest of the year. I wasn't really too hot on this idea a month ago, but with Mateo's steep decline and Westburg's promotion, I'm very keen on a regular infield lineup of Urias/Gunnar/Westburg/O'Hearn. I've long felt that Urias needs regular PT to get going offensively, so this is a way to accomplish that. Gunnar may be the 3b of the future, but we can worry about that in 2024 or beyond or when we no longer have Urias on the team (which I personally hope is a long time, because I think he's a criminally underrated player), or when Holiday makes his debut. 

I think this infield configuration gives us the best chance to win now, and it doesn't set us back from any player-development standpoint. 

Again, I'm not talking about trading guys (necessarily) or how we can improve the roster through external channels, though I'm as interested as anyone else to see what we'll do at the deadline. My crystal ball says it won't be too exciting.

[The Goob]

Versus LHP - 1B - Santander, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

Versus RHP - 1B - O'Hearn, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

To me Frazier, Mateo are bench players at this point and nothing more

[Billy F-Face3]

Should be interesting to see tonight's lineup considering Gunnar and Frazier both had yesterday off and today is another LHP. I think Hyde should build the lineup with the intention of Westburg playing 2nd Base and Hays playing Left Field. I guess that means either Santander or Urias gets to play 1st base. But with how good I seen Urias playing 3rd base last night, I don't know that I'd want to take him off the hot corner. It's like watching art out there when he's playing 3rd. How many times has Gunnar Henderson and Jordan Westburg paired together as a double play combo in the minor leagues? I would assume they have familiarity with each other, so that could potentially help.

[owknows]

13 hours ago, The Goob said:

Versus LHP - 1B - Santander, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

Versus RHP - 1B - O'Hearn, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

To me Frazier, Mateo are bench players at this point and nothing more

This

[Moose Milligan]

Whichever doesn’t have Mountcastle, Frazier and Mateo. 

[MikeAD]

14 hours ago, The Goob said:

Versus LHP - 1B - Santander, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

Versus RHP - 1B - O'Hearn, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

To me Frazier, Mateo are bench players at this point and nothing more

Yep, get Westburg the at-bats and you have ample ways to rest players with Matteo and Frazier off the bench.  I'm a big fan of Matteo but this makes the most sense and Frazier/Matteo won't be on the team long term anyway.    

[MCO'sFan]

I'd try this first to see if Mateo can keep his OPS vs LHP high enough to keep playing. If  not, then I would go with the second lineup.

#1

Versus LHP - 1B - Santander, 2B - Westburg, SS - Mateo, 3B - Henderson (Urias sometimes)

Versus RHP - 1B - O'Hearn, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

#2

Versus LHP - 1B - Santander, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

Versus RHP - 1B - O'Hearn, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

Frazier may be a good pinch hitter. I'm really done with Mountcastle. I don't think he is a first division player. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by MCO'sFan

[MCO'sFan]

Does anyone remember a playoff team that platooned at SS? None comes to mind for me. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, MCO'sFan said:

Does anyone remember a playoff team that platooned at SS? None comes to mind for me. 

Check out the 1968 Detroit Tigers.  They split SS three ways, and LHB Tommy Matchik played almost exclusively vs. RHP.  Ray Oyler and Dick Tracewski were the other two.

[MCO'sFan]

Thanks Frobby. That was interesting to see. Also very interesting was that they used 60 different lineups (excluding pitchers) and the most often used was only 17 games. That seems like a lot for a WS champion but maybe not when looking at how often they platooned. Although, I don't really know much about lineup frequency. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by MCO'sFan

[LA2]

1 hour ago, MCO'sFan said:

I'd try this first to see if Mateo can keep his OPS vs LHP high enough to keep playing. If  not, then I would go with the second lineup.

#1

Versus LHP - 1B - Santander, 2B - Westburg, SS - Mateo, 3B - Henderson (Urias sometimes)

Versus RHP - 1B - O'Hearn, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

#2

Versus LHP - 1B - Santander, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

Versus RHP - 1B - O'Hearn, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias

Frazier may be a good pinch hitter. I'm really done with Mountcastle. I don't think he is a first division player. 

Devil's Advocate here:

Few fans want to settle for Henderson as a platoon player, but the fact that it's currently the same number of ABs makes the following comparison convenient:

In Mateo's 73 AB vs. LHP this season--

.301 / .354 / .425 (.779)

3 doubles, 2 HR, 5 BB, 13 SB, 8 RBI

In Henderson's 73 AB vs. LHP entire career--

.178 / .310 / .206 (.516)

2 doubles, 0 HR, 14 BB, 3 SB, 4 RBI

Yes, we're only 382 PA into Gunnar's career and it's likely that his recent offensive improvement will generalize to a certain extent to his performance vs. LHP, but what Mateo contributes in terms of defense and speed makes the argument for platooning him at SS (+.263 OPS advantage) even stronger.

[Just Regular]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Whichever doesn’t have Mountcastle, Frazier and Mateo. 

5 weeks to the trade deadline, so Mateo might get a little showcasing bump, but yea big picture if Westburg (and later Cowser) can get on base .320ish, we could have an opportunity to field lineups where no one is under .300.

There may be some push/pulls if Gunnar shows himself to be 70% or 90% of the defensive shortstop Mateo is.

[HandsomeQuack]

1 minute ago, LA2 said:

Devil's Advocate here:

Few fans want to settle for Henderson as a platoon player, but the fact that it's currently the same number of ABs makes the following comparison convenient:

In Mateo's 73 AB vs. LHP this season--

.301 / .354 / .425 (.779)

3 doubles, 2 HR, 5 BB, 13 SB, 8 RBI

In Henderson's 73 AB vs. LHP entire career--

.178 / .310 / .206 (.516)

2 doubles, 0 HR, 14 BB, 3 SB, 4 RBI

Yes, we're only 382 PA into Gunnar's career and it's likely that his recent offensive improvement will generalize to a certain extent to his performance vs. LHP, but what Mateo contributes in terms of defense and speed makes the argument for platooning him at SS (+.263 OPS advantage) even stronger.

That's fair enough, but Mateo's career slash against LHP is .236/.283/.379. Given his horrific output this year, I am inclined to chalk up his positive lefty splits as random noise. Not to mention the development aspect of playing Gunnar vs LHP.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Just Regular said:

5 weeks to the trade deadline, so Mateo might get a little showcasing bump, but yea big picture if Westburg (and later Cowser) can get on base .320ish, we could have an opportunity to field lineups where no one is under .300.

There may be some push/pulls if Gunnar shows himself to be 70% or 90% of the defensive shortstop Mateo is.

I think by now most teams know who Mateo is and what he brings to the table.  Elite-ish glove and can go on massive heaters but the lows are painfully low.  I don't think he really needs to be showcased.

 I agree with your outcome, would be nice to be able to field a lineup where the lowest guys are OBPing at .320 or so.