Trevor Bauer

[SilentJames]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

And yet millions watch the NFL each weekend despite cheering on players with legal battles.

People line up for concerts to watch artists that have checkered pasts.

There's a point where the talent or the performance surpasses whatever issues the talent or the performer has in their closet.  Like, I'm 100% positive that if Michael Jackson were still alive that there's no way I'd let my kid spend the night at his house.  But that doesn't mean I'm not putting Thriller on the record player every so often.

And it is up to the individual teams to determine if that is worth it. I know more than a couple lifelong Eagles fans that abandoned the team when they signed Vick (they happened to work in animal rescue)

And that is your choice with regard to Michael Jackson - I mean I'm not even sure who makes money off his records anymore i'd like to think it goes to his kids which that is fine. Im not buying that fantasy Jackson ticket, but that is an individual choice. 

Orgs have to decide whether it is worth it. The calculus in the NFL is different because there are so few games, and impact players get treated differently. RE: That kicker that was drafted and dropped immediately after sexual assault allegations vs Deshaun Jackson - Cleveland did their math and determined that Jackson's baggage was worth the wins he supposedly brings. Now, I think its disgusting, much in the way I was done with the Ravens after Ray Rice and probably wouldve felt differently about Lewis if I were older at the time - but again that is me. 

Baseball seasons are LONG, and that is a lot of time for a new allegation to crop up, a lot of press availability, a lot of chances for a hot mic, a lot of chances for him to be a raging unrepentant douche again. So yeah different calculus. 

Hey Im not saying that if/ when he does sign somewhere there wouldnt still be fans, im saying that I dont want him on my team. 

[Pickles]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

And yet millions watch the NFL each weekend despite cheering on players with legal battles.

People line up for concerts to watch artists that have checkered pasts.

There's a point where the talent or the performance surpasses whatever issues the talent or the performer has in their closet.  Like, I'm 100% positive that if Michael Jackson were still alive that there's no way I'd let my kid spend the night at his house.  But that doesn't mean I'm not putting Thriller on the record player every so often.

Not to get political  but I'm about to get political.  LOL.

The Dodgers are so averse to offending their fans that they immediately had to drop Bauer, despite him not being convicted of anything, so as to avoid major backlash from their fans.

The Dodgers also had a night this year at the ballpark celebrating a drag queen troupe, that is rife with convicted sex criminals, and has a long history of blasphemous and sacrilegious "performances."

Makes perfect sense.

This is not about "offending" anyone, or "protecting their brand."  

This is about specific agendas being astroturfed on the general public and the media being the driving force.

[byrdz]

No to Bauer. Just look at this mess of a thread. 

[NashLumber]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Well, it is a pretty terrible thing.  But Bauer has a long-reported history of being aloof from and disliked by teammates.   So, it’s not just something he said online, or his weird interactions with women. The front office would need to seriously consider how he’d fit into the clubhouse and whether he would alienate fans.  

I have no idea if this portion of The Oriole Way is part of their equation anymore, but in line with what you said (and I agree), he would not have passed the "attitude" part of the evaluation. From "Pitching, Defense, and the 3 Run Homer" which is my current reading. 


 

[Pickles]

25 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

This story seems to be about a guy who is an butthole and real rich and a woman who planned to make major money off him.   And the media falling into the "believe all women" crap because of meh.....Metoo.   The Metoo movement that Amber Heard destroyed and proved you cant just go around "believing all women" as a your normal position.  

Hopefully Trevor has learned a lesson in the wisdom of a kink that involves hitting women in the face.  It is not worth it buddy.

It reminds me of the meme floating around this week.

It's a short clip of Joe Rogan bemoaning that you can find a book to tell you how to fix a transmission, or plant a vegetable garden, but there's no book that has written rules for life and the best way to live your life.  And it's captioned: "What wants to tell him?"

Because that's exactly what the Bible is: A guide to life.

And frankly, yeah, you should practice the sexual morality as taught in the Bible.  Even if you don't believe in a God, or an afterlife, a judgement, etc.

It's just good living.  It will keep you out of a lot of pickles, or a lot of pickles out of you, depending on your gender.

[24fps]

Defamation:

To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages, or some harm caused to the reputation of the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.

-but-

In 1964 the Supreme Court ruled in New York Times Co. v Sullivan that the defamatory statement(s) had to be made with "actual malice".  Since then, this has had the effect of raising the bar VERY high and consequently you rarely see defamation suits in the US.  Certainly in comparison to places like Great Britain.

Should Bauer decide to bring suit, he will have to also prove malice which I think is unlikely to be successful.  It will also serve to put the spotlight squarely back on him  for an extended time in a post #metoo media environment.  No sensible team is going to want to be associated with that circus so the Orioles should stay far, far away from Trevor Bauer.

 

[MurphDogg]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I remember that charge specifically being reported, and I remember being pretty shocked by it.

I've always felt this is what it is turning out to be: A set-up and a money-grab.  But feeling something isn't the same as knowing it.

And when that was reported it made me question my assumptions, because a fractured skull isn't something that can be explained away by kink imo.

And of course that's exactly why the writer chose to lie about it.

Just so we are clear you still don't know it, nor do you know that the writer lied about it.

What you have quoted is a court filing by Bauer, claiming that (a) there was no fracture, and (b) the writer knew there was no fracture and lied about it.

I am not particularly convinced of Bauer's veracity for the truth, and there are enough editors and lawyers working for The Athletic that I find such a claim highly dubious, but I suppose time will tell.

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, byrdz said:

No to Bauer. Just look at this mess of a thread. 

As someone defending Bauer in this thread, I'll repeat for the 4th time: I have no interest in him being a Baltimore Oriole.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, SilentJames said:

And it is up to the individual teams to determine if that is worth it. I know more than a couple lifelong Eagles fans that abandoned the team when they signed Vick (they happened to work in animal rescue)

And that is your choice with regard to Michael Jackson - I mean I'm not even sure who makes money off his records anymore i'd like to think it goes to his kids which that is fine. Im not buying that fantasy Jackson ticket, but that is an individual choice. 

Orgs have to decide whether it is worth it. The calculus in the NFL is different because there are so few games, and impact players get treated differently. RE: That kicker that was drafted and dropped immediately after sexual assault allegations vs Deshaun Jackson - Cleveland did their math and determined that Jackson's baggage was worth the wins he supposedly brings. Now, I think its disgusting, much in the way I was done with the Ravens after Ray Rice and probably wouldve felt differently about Lewis if I were older at the time - but again that is me. 

Baseball seasons are LONG, and that is a lot of time for a new allegation to crop up, a lot of press availability, a lot of chances for a hot mic, a lot of chances for him to be a raging unrepentant douche again. So yeah different calculus. 

Hey Im not saying that if/ when he does sign somewhere there wouldnt still be fans, im saying that I dont want him on my team. 

Ah, Ray Lewis is always the exception for a Ravens fan.  So if I understand you correctly, your morals have changed as you've gotten older but you're still sort of giving Ray Lewis a pass here.   

Baseball seasons are long, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.  It's not like a football player has to pause his woman-beating proclivities during their shorter season.  With social media today, any player in any sport can be a "raging unrepentant douche" at any time of the year.  Comparing the length of a football season to the length of a baseball season here isn't a great arguing point, especially when the NFL has fashioned itself into a year round sport.  Even if games aren't being played, there's the draft, free agency, training camps, etc.  There's a reason why the NFL and the NBA are the first things that ESPN covers no matter what.

But ultimately, you're right.  Organizations have to decide whether or not it's worth it.  And no, the calculus isn't always different with baseball and football.  I mean, Marcell Ozuna is still playing.  Julio Urias came back after his first domestic battery suspension, I would bet he'll come back again.  Aroldis Chapman.  Jimmy Cordero.  Addison Russell.  Roberto Osuna.  This idea that the "calculus is different" is hilarious.

Talent usually wins out.  Not always, there are exceptions, but it usually does.  

[Flash- bd]

23 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

And yet millions watch the NFL each weekend despite cheering on players with legal battles.

People line up for concerts to watch artists that have checkered pasts.

There's a point where the talent or the performance surpasses whatever issues the talent or the performer has in their closet.  Like, I'm 100% positive that if Michael Jackson were still alive that there's no way I'd let my kid spend the night at his house.  But that doesn't mean I'm not putting Thriller on the record player every so often.

This is true but a Michael Jackson / Roman Polanski / Woody Allen comparison isn't quite analogous. In the end baseball clubs are businesses. Polanski or Allen's films still make enough money to be profitable or these guys have enough resources to make them happen regardless. With a sports team you have to consider the financial and business fallout as well as the sporting aspect only (which also has its points to debate, of course). A similar case happened with Mason Greenwood in soccer in England, where Manchester United's internal investigation concluded that Greenwood was innocent but that they couldn't continue his career at United because of the number of sponsors that threatened to pull out (and the media fallout / reputation damage expected to the club). 

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Not to get political  but I'm about to get political.  LOL.

The Dodgers are so averse to offending their fans that they immediately had to drop Bauer, despite him not being convicted of anything, so as to avoid major backlash from their fans.

The Dodgers also had a night this year at the ballpark celebrating a drag queen troupe, that is rife with convicted sex criminals, and has a long history of blasphemous and sacrilegious "performances."

Makes perfect sense.

This is not about "offending" anyone, or "protecting their brand."  

This is about specific agendas being astroturfed on the general public and the media being the driving force.

To be clear, this isn't political, it's social.  But the two are tied too closely these days.

That said, this is a bit of false equivalency and I don't really think there's much of a comparison here.  

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Just so we are clear you still don't know it, nor do you know that the writer lied about it.

What you have quoted is a court filing by Bauer, claiming that (a) there was no fracture, and (b) the writer knew there was no fracture and lied about it.

I am not particularly convinced of Bauer's veracity for the truth, and there are enough editors and lawyers working for The Athletic that I find such a claim highly dubious, but I suppose time will tell.

I know the writer wrote something that was not true.  I know the writer should not have written that untruth if they practiced the basic ethics of their profession.

Were they lying intentionally?  Absolutely imo.

Did they fail the basic ethics of their profession?  Absolutely, undoubtedly, a matter of fact.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

To be clear, this isn't political, it's social.  But the two are tied too closely these days.

That said, this is a bit of false equivalency and I don't really think there's much of a comparison here.  

Why do you think it's a false equivalency?  Not trying to fight but I think the two situations reflect rather profoundly upon each other.

 

[MurphDogg]

11 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Not to get political  but I'm about to get political.  LOL.

The Dodgers are so averse to offending their fans that they immediately had to drop Bauer, despite him not being convicted of anything, so as to avoid major backlash from their fans.

The Dodgers also had a night this year at the ballpark celebrating a drag queen troupe, that is rife with convicted sex criminals, and has a long history of blasphemous and sacrilegious "performances."

Makes perfect sense.

This is not about "offending" anyone, or "protecting their brand."  

This is about specific agendas being astroturfed on the general public and the media being the driving force.

If I were defending the Catholic Church, I'm not sure I would want to pull out the scorebook to determine which group was rife with sex criminals.

Edited October 3, 2023 by MurphDogg

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Flash- bd said:

This is true but a Michael Jackson / Roman Polanski / Woody Allen comparison isn't quite analogous. In the end baseball clubs are businesses. Polanski or Allen's films still make enough money to be profitable or these guys have enough resources to make them happen regardless. With a sports team you have to consider the financial and business fallout as well as the sporting aspect only (which also has its points to debate, of course). A similar case happened with Mason Greenwood in soccer in England, where Manchester United's internal investigation concluded that Greenwood was innocent but that they couldn't continue his career at United because of the number of sponsors that threatened to pull out (and the media fallout / reputation damage expected to the club). 

Baseball clubs are businesses.  NFL football teams are franchises.  Michael Jackson, despite not playing a team sport, was very much a business unto himself.  

You used the world "profitable," which is the only thing that matters at the end of the day.  

I don't know who Mason Greenwood is or what he allegedly did.