Joey Ortiz for 3B?

[Sports Guy]

I just don’t see how you keep both Westburg and Ortiz unless they just aren’t valued around the league, which I doubt.  One has to go but whoever stays could be the third baseman of the future.

I still think Gunnar is that guy but we’ll see.

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I just don’t see how you keep both Westburg and Ortiz unless they just aren’t valued around the league, which I doubt.  One has to go but whoever stays could be the third baseman of the future.

I still think Gunnar is that guy but we’ll see.

Holliday, Henderson, Ortiz, and Westburg make for a perfectly reasonable 4 man rotation between 3 infield spots, with DH at-bats available.

If that's the plan, there's nothing wrong with it.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Holliday, Henderson, Ortiz, and Westburg make for a perfectly reasonable 4 man rotation between 3 infield spots, with DH at-bats available.

If that's the plan, there's nothing wrong with it.

Holliday and Henderson are 155+ game a year players. They are true everyday guys. Ortiz and Westburg have too much value to be guys that share time and play sparingly.

If they don’t have trade value, you don’t trade them just to trade them.

But if either of them can be a big piece in a trade to get you back an area of need, it would be dumb to not do that, just to keep them and watch them get 300-400 at bats a year.  
 

This is why someone like Urias makes so much sense. He can play sparingly and if someone gets hurt, he can be an everyday guy for you. He’s a perfect bench guy for our situation.
 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

Mayo's run speed is rated 40 (slow) according to mlb.com.   I don't  see him playing the outfield.

They’ve been wrong so often on speed ratings that I wouldn’t trust them.  Tony had Mayo at 50/45.   Longenhagen had him at 55/40.  Bottom line, we won’t know about his outfield play until he plays there.  

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

They’ve been wrong so often on speed ratings that I wouldn’t trust them.  Tony had Mayo at 50/45.   Longenhagen had him at 55/40.  Bottom line, we won’t know about his outfield play until he plays there.  

MLB has Cowser as a 55 runner and Kjerstad as a 45.   Savant has each with the exact same sprint speed of 27.9

[Pickles]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Holliday and Henderson are 155+ game a year players. They are true everyday guys. Ortiz and Westburg have too much value to be guys that share time and play sparingly.

If they don’t have trade value, you don’t trade them just to trade them.

But if either of them can be a big piece in a trade to get you back an area of need, it would be dumb to not do that, just to keep them and watch them get 300-400 at bats a year.  
 

This is why someone like Urias makes so much sense. He can play sparingly and if someone gets hurt, he can be an everyday guy for you. He’s a perfect bench guy for our situation.
 

 

H and H are every day guys, but unless they're Cal Ripken they're not going to do that year in and year out.  Some of that time can be spent at DH as well, which makes sense as both of their bats play there, and the O's going forward aren't going to have  a permanent DH.

If you have 2100 plate appearances between those three infield positions, then the plate appearance breakdown is probably 600 to H and H, and 450 to Westburg and Ortiz.  And again, that's not counting opportunities at DH.

Ortiz getting 450 at bats as a rookie is a perfectly acceptable role.  If he does well and is just a clear cut every day first division SS, then yeah, you probably try to move him for appropriate value.

Ortiz is the fly in the ointment in this situation.  Until he is traded then that role isn't available.  But of course, until Holliday is up, and I don't expect that to happen for several months, this is all moot.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Pickles

[DirtyBird]

31 minutes ago, Pickles said:

You have a problem with top 10 performances?

I have a problem with it using two guys who can only play 1B to get there.

[Aristotelian]

15 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Holliday, Henderson, Ortiz, and Westburg make for a perfectly reasonable 4 man rotation between 3 infield spots, with DH at-bats available.

If that's the plan, there's nothing wrong with it.

And Westburg has all the tools to be a good OF. If he hits we can find a role for him. 

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

MLB has Cowser as a 55 runner and Kjerstad as a 45.   Savant has each with the exact same sprint speed of 27.9

@Tony-OHhas given sone reasons why scouting speed might not match sprint speed as measured by Statcast.  Basically, sprint speed is top speed and some guys reach top speed faster than others.   

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

H and H are every day guys, but unless they're Cal Ripken they're not going to do that year in and year out.  Some of that time can be spent at DH as well, which makes sense as both of their bats play there, and the O's going forward aren't going to have  a permanent DH.

If you have 2100 plate appearances between those three infield positions, then the plate appearance breakdown is probably 600 to H and H, and 450 to Westburg and Ortiz.  And again, that's not counting opportunities at DH.

Ortiz getting 450 at bats as a rookie is a perfectly acceptable role.  If he does well and is just a clear cut every day first division SS, then yeah, you probably try to move him for appropriate value.

Ortiz is the fly in the ointment in this situation.  Until he is traded then that role isn't available.  But of course, until Holliday is up, and I don't expect that to happen for several months, this is all moot.

They will be everyday guys, for sure, early on. It’s not like they  are going to ease them in until they are 26 years old. Gunnar is already doing it.

If you include Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb and March, I agree Holliday won’t be up for several months.

 

I don’t get the thought process of people that think Elias is going to push Holliday through the entire minors in one season and then is just going to leave him in AAA for several months. That’s just non sensical.

I do agree that he could be down until June or so and I also agree that because of that, they could elect to keep Ortiz and Westburg for 2024. I have said one of them has to be traded in the next 18 months…how they plan to use Holliday is a big determining factor with that.

But long term, you just can’t keep them both and since they each likely have very strong value right now, you have obvious needs and an owner that won’t spend big on FA, it makes sense to trade one of them now.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

I have a problem with it using two guys who can only play 1B to get there.

I think you're confused about what is being measured.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And Westburg has all the tools to be a good OF. If he hits we can find a role for him. 

The thing is, we have OFers that have all the tools to be good OFers.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Superior roster construction to me. The production those guys are giving you over 162 is about 15x what they’re being paid. What’s so bad about having two first basemen in their prime at age 26 and 30?  

The problem would be that they are both RHB and play the same position. There is no logical reason to platoon them. Better to pick the better one and have them play every day. O'Hearn would be a more natural platoon fit but then he is hitting on the dominant side taking AB's from Mayo. When Mayo is ready, I think we just need to commit to him. Give Mountcastle the Mateo treatment as the last bench guy, then trade him if Mayo has success.

 

[DirtyBird]

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I think you're confused about what is being measured.

I don't think I am. The 9 teams ahead of us at 1B WAR are doing so with one player getting the vast majority of PA's. 

Please tell me what I am missing?

[DirtyBird]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

The problem would be that they are both RHB and play the same position. There is no logical reason to platoon them. Better to pick the better one and have them play every day. O'Hearn would be a more natural platoon fit but then he is hitting on the dominant side taking AB's from Mayo. When Mayo is ready, I think we just need to commit to him. Give Mountcastle the Mateo treatment as the last bench guy, then trade him if Mayo has success.

 

O'Hearn is left handed