Freel for Payton a mistake

[Snutchy]

I could say, but I am not at liberty to discuss things from the clubhouse, unless given the okay. All that I can say is that there are as many people in the clubhouse that were against the antics of said player as there are people that have disagreed with you in this thread.

In regards to the other portion of your original statement, even if they cut Freel, eat his $4M salary and are left with just the air from a bubblegum bubble to replace Payton, the O's got the better end of the deal. Even if the air in the bubblegum bubble is from Payton himself, then the O's get the better end of the deal. Because that is the extent of his legacy as an Oriole, just some hot air.

This is why you are the mac of all mac-daddys.

[glorydays]

The over inflated value of the homerun is just another indicator of our society's need for instant gratifications. If you notice who is still on the free agent market, it is aging one dimensional homerun hitters like Manny and until recently Dunn.

What GM's around the baseball world are realizing is that teams need to get back to the fundamentals of defense, pitching, youth, athletic ability and character. Andy MacPhail has done a solid job of bringing in such players - including Freel. I would much rather take his intangibles than Payton's homeruns.

[Anonymous]

As for Freel, I really don't see how the talking to himself is such a big deal.

I think anyone who talks to himself is a head case.

Tell me Anon, why do you feel that way?

[Orioles West]

Payton was unhappy with a part time role. Imagine his morale with the addition of Pie whom the Orioles are commiting to play nearly full time.

This is pretty much my take on the guy. I saw him when he was here with the Rockies as well. To me, he swings a pretty mean bat, yet he really seems like a player who chooses the on/off switch versus bringing it all every single day.

-Don

[Beltwayman]

Whether or not your oppinion about Paytons addition or subtraction to the teams unity (though I havent agreed with you, your comments I consider thought provoking) I want to remind you of the point on the field....

Platooning Pie and Freel in left field shows very little power against lefties coming out of that position on the field. Payton showed more power against lefties than either one. If Pie and Freel make the team, I cant imagine another outfielder on the bench.

[Snutchy]

I think anyone who talks to himself is a head case.

Tell me Anon, why do you feel that way?

Talking to youself is okay, as long as you don't answer yourself.

[TheBee]

I could say, but I am not at liberty to discuss things from the clubhouse, unless given the okay. All that I can say is that there are as many people in the clubhouse that were against the antics of said player as there are people that have disagreed with you in this thread.

In regards to the other portion of your original statement, even if they cut Freel, eat his $4M salary and are left with just the air from a bubblegum bubble to replace Payton, the O's got the better end of the deal. Even if the air in the bubblegum bubble is from Payton himself, then the O's get the better end of the deal. Because that is the extent of his legacy as an Oriole, just some hot air.

Great post...must be tough for you sometimes.

Thread's done.

[BaltimoreTerp]

If you notice who is still on the free agent market, it is aging one dimensional homerun hitters like Manny and until recently Dunn.

Welp, you're wrong...

Manny is one of the best overall hitters of ours or any generation, and Dunn can get on-base better than most when he isn't hitting his home run. Let alone the fact that Dunn is aging as Mark Teixeira is aging...

[Anonymous]

Whether or not your oppinion about Paytons addition or subtraction to the teams unity (though I havent agreed with you, your comments I consider thought provoking) I want to remind you of the point on the field....

Platooning Pie and Freel in left field shows very little power against lefties coming out of that position on the field. Payton showed more power against lefties than either one. If Pie and Freel make the team, I cant imagine another outfielder on the bench.

But the larger point is that this in no way was a Freel-for-Payton trade. They were two independent decisions. Letting Payton go was a completely obvious no-brainer. The Freel pickup greased the skids for the absolutely mandatory departure of Ramon. The only hesitation I have regarding the Freel deal was whether we might have avoided his inflated salary by asking for and receiving less in the prospect pickup part of the trade, as I'm not sure that part of the tradeoff was optimal.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Payton is a 36-year-old declining player who can play left field and a little center and is well known as bad in the clubhouse. He has zero future with this team; Millar would be more likely to help the team.

Freel is (will be) a 33-year-old player who can play the entire outfield well and isn't known as bad in the clubhouse. He could be the main utility player on the next good team, and even if not he's essentially free for the year (since he's getting Hernandez's money anyway) and doesn't cost anything in additional cash or player resources.

I'll take the latter over the former any day, even if it costs the team a couple home runs (that Pie would likely make up anyway).

[glorydays]

Welp, you're wrong...

Manny is one of the best overall hitters of ours or any generation, and Dunn can get on-base better than most when he isn't hitting his home run. Let alone the fact that Dunn is aging as Mark Teixeira is aging...

Your more wronger...

Griffey Jr., Garret Anderson, Frank Thomas, Bobby Abreu...

From Peter Gammons:

It did sometimes look like slow-pitch softball, a bunch of high-OPS dudes whose best work was done in batting practice. OK, the post-steroids era may play out here, but the fact is that as we close out the first decade of the 21st century, baseball has nudged back toward the baseball that Whitey Herzog cherished, where athleticism and defense and baserunning really matter.

No one has come up with the perfect defensive matrix, although a lot of brilliant people from Bill James onward have tried.

"The defensive studies we do are very useful, but they remain road maps more than absolutes," one executive says.

"No matter how we try to study defense, there still has to be a subjective element to what we do," one GM says. "But that's not to say that what we have isn't very useful."

Says another GM: "I still believe that one of the factors that has hurt some of the good offensive free agents this winter, like Manny Ramirez, Bobby Abreu and Adam Dunn, is the concern about how many runs they give back defensively. There is a great deal more appreciation for defense than there was a decade ago."

and later...

"Defense has come back into the consciousness so much that we try to measure what his glove means to a team's success, even if he is no more than a .650 OPS guy," one executive says.

[Omega]

I think anyone who talks to himself is a head case.

Tell me Anon, why do you feel that way?

Your opinion is noted. However, there are many of us who will disagree with that statement. Talking to oneself is a time honored tradition to many. I doubt that a large percentage of us are head cases. Many athletes are among us. Mark Fydrich off the top of my head, who was very well liked by his teammates and the rest of the league as well. I think "head case" is not something that describes the majority of us.

If he makes the team, Freel should make an interesting addition to our clubhouse. I don't think he'll be a detriment at all.

[blueberryale77]

Let's end the idea that Payton played poor defense for the O's. He didn't. In 2007, according to URZ he was largely neutral.

Used more appropriately by Trembley last year, he put up a 28.4 UZR/150 in LF and a 19.6 UZR/150 in CF.

Didn't balance out his very poor hitting. And he was definitely getting paid way too much (over the course of his contract) even if he was worth something close to $4-5m last year.

Are you really willing to hang your hat on a statistic that regards Payton as a better defender than Nick Markakis? When it comes to judging defense, you have to rely on what you see with your own two eyes during games as well as what you read on a stat sheet. Payton misjudged a lot of balls, made some terrible throws, some of which were also to the wrong base, and frequently failed to chase down balls at full speed. He did not play good defense. No stat that says he's average for a left fielder (there's an accomplishment) is going to convince me that his defense provided us with any value whatsoever during his tenure in Baltimore.

[Mackus]

Your opinion is noted. However, there are many of us who will disagree with that statement. Talking to oneself is a time honored tradition to many. I doubt that a large percentage of us are head cases. Many athletes are among us. Mark Fydrich off the top of my head, who was very well liked by his teammates and the rest of the league as well. I think "head case" is not something that describes the majority of us.

If he makes the team, Freel should make an interesting addition to our clubhouse. I don't think he'll be a detriment at all.

Maybe one of the voices you talk to could tell you about what sarcasm is.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Your more wronger...

Griffey Jr., Garret Anderson, Frank Thomas, Bobby Abreu...

From Peter Gammons:

and later...

Except none of that has anything to do with what I said