Freel for Payton a mistake

[Beltwayman]

Although defensively it appears the outfield has imporved since 08; its also not as good as 08 in some areas. Defensively Pie is an impovement, thats a plus especially over Scott. The biggest 'miss' from 08 is power, especially against lefties. Freel is better against lefties than Pie, so I presume he'd get the most ab's against. Freel has speed on the bases and good obp, but has significantly less power than Payton (over 5 years and simular ab's vs lh, Payton has 23 hr's vs 5 for Freel). Another 'miss' is Character/Personality. I like Paytons passion for the game and his desire to win, some label it 'too much emotion'; but Freel's drinking problems and constant talking to an imaginary person is much more of a drain on team chemestry/unity. Another plus that Freel brings is versitily (his experience as an infeilder); personal issues aside, that would have made Freel for Payton an even or plus trade, but only if Freel's personal issues are in the past (and how likely is that?).

[JTrea81]

I think you are going to be going alone on this one.

And it wasn't really Freel for Payton. It was Freel for Hernandez opening up a spot for Matt Wieters. Payton was just let go as a FA. Don't tell me you wanted us to re-sign him?

Freel is pretty much David Newhan albeit a better version. He's a solid bench player that knows his role, unlike Payton who still thought he could be a starter.

[NewMarketSean]

I know I will miss Payton jogging in the OF to a ball that has been hit into the corner.

Freel is an all-around better player than Payton at this point in their careers. I will take Freel over Payton every day if the week and twice on Sundays.

[Roll Tide]

Although defensively it appears the outfield has imporved since 08; its also not as good as 08 in some areas. Defensively Pie is an impovement, thats a plus especially over Scott. The biggest 'miss' from 08 is power, especially against lefties. Freel is better against lefties than Pie, so I presume he'd get the most ab's against. Freel has speed on the bases and good obp, but has significantly less power than Payton (over 5 years and simular ab's vs lh, Payton has 23 hr's vs 5 for Freel). Another 'miss' is Character/Personality. I like Paytons passion for the game and his desire to win, some label it 'too much emotion'; but Freel's drinking problems and constant talking to an imaginary person is much more of a drain on team chemestry/unity. Another plus that Freel brings is versitily (his experience as an infeilder); personal issues aside, that would have made Freel for Payton an even or plus trade, but only if Freel's personal issues are in the past (and how likely is that?).

Payton was unhappy with a part time role. Imagine his morale with the addition of Pie whom the Orioles are commiting to play nearly full time.

[HotTubMan]

Although defensively it appears the outfield has imporved since 08; its also not as good as 08 in some areas. Defensively Pie is an impovement, thats a plus especially over Scott. The biggest 'miss' from 08 is power, especially against lefties. Freel is better against lefties than Pie, so I presume he'd get the most ab's against. Freel has speed on the bases and good obp, but has significantly less power than Payton (over 5 years and simular ab's vs lh, Payton has 23 hr's vs 5 for Freel). Another 'miss' is Character/Personality. I like Paytons passion for the game and his desire to win, some label it 'too much emotion'; but Freel's drinking problems and constant talking to an imaginary person is much more of a drain on team chemestry/unity. Another plus that Freel brings is versitily (his experience as an infeilder); personal issues aside, that would have made Freel for Payton an even or plus trade, but only if Freel's personal issues are in the past (and how likely is that?).

I have to respectfully disagree with this post. Payton was more unlikeable in the clubhouse then you think but played the game hard and fundamentally correct.

Freel will give the body for the team and this can cause injury but is not in anyway a drain on the team chemistry. His so called "drinking problems" is not a problem at all but a lesson learned from past mistakes and his talking to himself makes for no problems whatsoever. It just makes for a 26 man roster...and we can use all the help we can get.

I like the swap personally.

[o'sfan2009]

Although defensively it appears the outfield has imporved since 08; its also not as good as 08 in some areas. Defensively Pie is an impovement, thats a plus especially over Scott. The biggest 'miss' from 08 is power, especially against lefties. Freel is better against lefties than Pie, so I presume he'd get the most ab's against. Freel has speed on the bases and good obp, but has significantly less power than Payton (over 5 years and simular ab's vs lh, Payton has 23 hr's vs 5 for Freel). Another 'miss' is Character/Personality. I like Paytons passion for the game and his desire to win, some label it 'too much emotion'; but Freel's drinking problems and constant talking to an imaginary person is much more of a drain on team chemestry/unity. Another plus that Freel brings is versitily (his experience as an infeilder); personal issues aside, that would have made Freel for Payton an even or plus trade, but only if Freel's personal issues are in the past (and how likely is that?).

No offense but Payton was one of the most egotistical SOB's I have ever seen step foot onto a baseball field. His lazy attitude can play somewhere else.

[LookitsPuck]

Power? Come on, man. Not even a chance.

Jay Payton has been below average in OPS since 2004. And he's been in a sharp decline, too. 36 years old, too.

[DrungoHazewood]

Although defensively it appears the outfield has imporved since 08; its also not as good as 08 in some areas. Defensively Pie is an impovement, thats a plus especially over Scott. The biggest 'miss' from 08 is power, especially against lefties. Freel is better against lefties than Pie, so I presume he'd get the most ab's against. Freel has speed on the bases and good obp, but has significantly less power than Payton (over 5 years and simular ab's vs lh, Payton has 23 hr's vs 5 for Freel). Another 'miss' is Character/Personality. I like Paytons passion for the game and his desire to win, some label it 'too much emotion'; but Freel's drinking problems and constant talking to an imaginary person is much more of a drain on team chemestry/unity. Another plus that Freel brings is versitily (his experience as an infeilder); personal issues aside, that would have made Freel for Payton an even or plus trade, but only if Freel's personal issues are in the past (and how likely is that?).

Wait a minute. You're saying Farney is a negative influence?

[McLovin]

It's all moot anyway - a contender swooped in and picked up Payton pretty quickly. It is so obvious to most baseball men how valuable Payton is.

What team picked him up again?

Oh, my bad, no one picked him up. Because he stinks.

[fearthenoodle]

Wow- this thread is pretty bad. If losing Payton was such a big deal, why didn't any other team bother to offer him a contract?

[TJ Wrangler]

It's all moot anyway - a contender swooped in and picked up Payton pretty quickly. It is so obvious to most baseball men how valuable Payton is.

What team picked him up again?

Oh, my bad, no one picked him up. Because he stinks.

LOL!!! I was actually getting ready to look up where Payton was signed to so quickly. Good one.

[Don_Aase_Fan]

I was just going to say, if losing Payton was such a mistake over obtaining Freel then why is Payton still looking for a job? No offense OP, but I couldn't disagree more with this thread. Last season, I was literally counting down the days to when I no longer had to see Payton in an O's uniform.

[Beltwayman]

It's all moot anyway - a contender swooped in and picked up Payton pretty quickly. It is so obvious to most baseball men how valuable Payton is.

What team picked him up again?

Oh, my bad, no one picked him up. Because he stinks.

Now you know this is not even close to fair. How late did Dunn get picked up in FA? Oh yeah, he's another outfielder.......duh

[zff4]

It's just another stat but one that is interesting from time to time as it's a revealing indicator regarding a useful virtue: patience at the plate.

In 2007 Jay Payton had one of the lowest (worst) pitches per plate appearance (P/PA) in the majors, 3.21.

In 2008 Payton's P/PA improved somewhat to 3.25. Among his teammates, he was superior to Juan Castro, Luis Montanez and Alex Cintron. But that's it.

Constructing a team that has patience at the plate, and can work the count shouldn't include Payton.

I think you can attribute Boston's success to quite a few virtues, but that's a team that works the count and are tough outs. It's a quality they seek in players and coach it up and down their lines, and it's one of the small difference makers. Incidentally, Millar's Boston experience might speak to this. His P/PA in 2008 led the O's everyday players with 4.08. He wasn't an easy out and I appreciated that about him. It's not something you could say of Jay.

[Austin]

I couldn't be happier that Payton is no longer an Oriole. The last thing we need is a below average, aging malcontent who thinks he should be starting in LF. At least Freel understands his role.