Santander for Bieber

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Perfect summary!  

I could have easily said yes in a vacuum, but there are better options for a Santander+ package.  I like that it frees up a spot and checks an SP box.  But’s meh…

I would guess Cle fans would say almost the same thing.

[btdart20]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I would guess Cle fans would say almost the same thing.

Possibly.

Are they more offense-starved than us pitching-starved?  I think so.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Possibly.

Are they more offense-starved than us pitching-starved?  I think so.

Yea but I would guess they would prefer cheaper, longer term talent. They would rather have a Cowser than a Santander, at least that’s my assumption.

That franchise doesn’t spend either.

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but I would guess they would prefer cheaper, longer term talent. They would rather have a Cowser than a Santander, at least that’s my assumption.

That franchise doesn’t spend either.

Is any franchise in their right mind going to give up a Coswer for Bieber?

[btdart20]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but I would guess they would prefer cheaper, longer term talent. They would rather have a Cowser than a Santander, at least that’s my assumption.

That franchise doesn’t spend either.

Is Bieber QO material?  Assuming he repeats what he did last year and made 30 GS.  I think so, so that’s a tie-breaker.  

I doubt we QO Santander.

[Just Regular]

It may be a Jorge Mateo sign to trade kind of situation, but CLE did recently put $5 million on Ramon Laureano, to perhaps join Myles Straw and Steven Kwan as starting OF.   $5mm seems kind of expensive for a backup there.

Josh Naylor and Kyle Manzardo have 1B/DH in theory.

I've seen Laureano mentioned for here as kind of a "super Ryan McKenna" so perhaps he'd mix in if CLE wanted Santander or Hays.    I assume any medium good Club that wants Santander might equally (or more?) want Hays.

[e16bball]

My question in response to that proposal would be to try to figure out how Hays’s value compares to that of Santander. All things being equal, I’d prefer to move Hays — even though he’s got some obvious advantages (specifically more control and more defensive value).

I am concerned about power with this team. Gunnar is a great bet to hit for power, but who else aside from Santander? There were 65 players who posted an ISO over .200 last season, and we had two of them. One of whom is the subject of this trade rumor.

Folks seem to feel as though Kjerstad is a likely source of immediate power, but I’m not sure I think that’s something to bank on. He had a .199 ISO throughout the minors, which is pretty much right in line with what he posted at Norfolk (.200 on the nose). That’s an okay number, but consider that it fell behind the likes of Westburg, Stowers, Mayo, Cowser, and Lester amongst just the regulars on that team, and also just a tick ahead of Norby. His wRC+ at Norfolk was 116, but we see him as a plug-and-play replacement for Santander’s 119 wRC+ at the ML level? That seems optimistic to me.

I do think that generally, as a group, O’s fans are a little too comfortable with the offense for next season. I saw it said earlier in the thread that they were behind “a few” other playoff teams offensively, but even that’s probably too generous. Per wRC+, they were behind every other playoff team (plus the Mariners). Unless we’re banking on them topping the league in hitting with RISP again, the offense needs to actually improve — not just maintain — and that may be a big ask from just internal improvements and prospect promotions. It becomes an even bigger ask if the plan is also to trade away the 3rd best hitter for pitching. 

[LookinUp]

I would rather trade Kremer/prospects (not the top 4, and I'd exclude a couple of the international guys) for Cease. I'd also rather just sign Ed Rodriguez. I'd like to do both of those things together actually.

But I wouldn't be opposed to this move in a vacuum or as a second move after one of those other two.

All of the trade talk, to me, is very hard to process in isolation. There's a lot of moving parts for this team right now. Or we hope/expect there to be anyway. I assume there's a mix of deals that would need to make sense in the end. 

 

[btdart20]

18 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

It may be a Jorge Mateo sign to trade kind of situation, but CLE did recently put $5 million on Ramon Laureano, to perhaps join Myles Straw and Steven Kwan as starting OF.   $5mm seems kind of expensive for a backup there.

Josh Naylor and Kyle Manzardo have 1B/DH in theory.

I've seen Laureano mentioned for here as kind of a "super Ryan McKenna" so perhaps he'd mix in if CLE wanted Santander or Hays.    I assume any medium good Club that wants Santander might equally (or more?) want Hays.

This may have nothing to do with CLE bringing in Laureano or it may have everything to do with it, but both Straw and Myles have a lower OPS vs. LHP and that's Laureano's strong side.  I suspect they may be going to Max Roster usage playing the splits.

[Sports Guy]

37 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Is any franchise in their right mind going to give up a Coswer for Bieber?

I doubt it but again, I was talking about it from a fan perspective.

[Sports Guy]

36 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Is Bieber QO material?  Assuming he repeats what he did last year and made 30 GS.  I think so, so that’s a tie-breaker.  

I doubt we QO Santander.

100%. Far more likely chance Bieber is QO worthy vs Santander.

Assuming a good medical check up, you have to do this deal if you are the Os.

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Who are we getting for Norby and Ortiz?

We're better off keeping Norby and Ortiz to replace Urias/Mateo/and some of Hays.  They're two guys that are worth more to us than what they would bring back in a trade.  It's not a travesty if they have to spend more time in AAA.  Not for the team at least.  

As for a SP, I'd rather us just make a move for the regular season, then see where we are come trade deadline.  Just because we messed up last deadline, doesn't mean we will this time around.  Gibson as a FA signing, or Quintana via trade, is the move we should make.  Even Irvin is an option as a SP.  Bieber is not a needle mover, and is not worth the risk.  

100 win teams shouldn't just trade away their SH #3 hitter.  

[sportsfan8703]

Why are we burying Wells as a SP?  Because he hit his innings limit and gassed out.  That was kind of predictable, and we got pretty lucky that it was just him.  We actually have a much bigger need in the bullpen than we do the rotation.  We have Bradish, Grayson, Means, Kremer, Wells, Irvin, and Hall as SP options.  

It may not be sexy, but a good offseason for us would be to trade for Quintana and lure Craig Kimbrel here for like 2/24.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, btdart20 said:

Perfect summary!  

I could have easily said yes in a vacuum, but there are better options for a Santander+ package.  I like that it frees up a spot and checks an SP box.  But’s meh…

The more I think about it and the more I've read the arguments in this thread, the more I'd come around to it.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bieber is necessarily a great pickup but I also don't think Santander is a long term piece for here, like I said.  I don't think he's a core player, as much as I appreciate him.

Bieber could be a good guy for a change of scenery and good coaching and good analytics.  

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

The more I think about it and the more I've read the arguments in this thread, the more I'd come around to it.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bieber is necessarily a great pickup but I also don't think Santander is a long term piece for here, like I said.  I don't think he's a core player, as much as I appreciate him.

Bieber could be a good guy for a change of scenery and good coaching and good analytics.  

Just be prepared to see O'Hearn in RF more than anyone is imagining in this thread.