Ohtani

[Since1984]

4 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is also taking the argument a bit too far.  Ruth today would have access to training (in season and off-season), diet and equipment that he didn't have back then.  The difference in park dimensions, how tight the ball is wound and bat size would be huge for him.  If he had any sort of discipline, he could still be a very good player.

He had freak hand/eye coordination, that's always an advantage no matter the era.  I don't believe anyone thinks he'd be as good as he was when he was playing but I do believe he'd still be very good.  To say he "would not be able to hang in today's game" is a bit much, IMO.

On the flip side how would he do during the Ruth era, outside of not being allowed to play in the league.

[Remember The Alomar]

19 minutes ago, Since1984 said:

On the flip side how would he do during the Ruth era, outside of not being allowed to play in the league.

The all-time home run record would probably stand at 1,100. 

[Since1984]

Hahaha!

[Since1984]

29 minutes ago, Remember The Alomar said:

The all-time home run record would probably stand at 1,100. 

On the flip side would he pitch 300+ innings 3 consecutive years!

[Frobby]

50 minutes ago, Remember The Alomar said:

The all-time home run record would probably stand at 1,100. 

More likely he’d hold an unbreakable record for intentional walks.  

I hate these “pluck an athlete out of the time he actually lived and put him in a different era” hypotheticals.   You live when you live.  You can only compete against your peers.  
 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Frobby

[Oriole1940]

5 hours ago, E-D-D-I-E said:

That to me is laughable. 

Offense: Your comparing one of, if not the greatest hitter EVER in professional baseball to a 40 homer guy in the bigs. I do find that comical. 

Pitching: Ruth was  one of the best pitchers in baseball until a decision was made that he had to play everyday. No one knows how get he could have been on the mound. I do know that for years he held the post season innings scoreless streak. 

The only comparison in my mind is that they are both pitching and hitting. 

 

Yes and one could make the argument that Ruth did it for a lot of years, when many if not most his MLB appearances were played with a Hangover, etc.

[Remember The Alomar]

54 minutes ago, Frobby said:

More likely he’d hold an unbreakable record for intentional walks.  

I hate these “pluck an athlete out of the time he actually lived and put him in a different era” hypotheticals.   You live when you live.  You can only compete against your peers.  
 

I don't disagree, but it's fun to shoot out dumb hypotheticals on a message board. Just like to imagine Ohtani blasting dongs off Grover Alexander.  

[Billy F-Face3]

Perhaps the team that is making these offers see this more as a business investment than a player investment. Ohtani comes with an entire nation of support and opportunity for brand deals. (Not to mention more ticket and merch sales.)

Even if we say he's just as good as Babe Ruth and a team has a chance to get him, 600M during Tommy John surgery and his aged 30 season would make it hard to live up to that type of money for any baseball player in the history of the game.  (That one player's guaranteed salary is 3 times the most expensive payrolls' in the league.) But maybe it could satisfy that type of investment in a business venture and marketing? Hmm...

[OriolesMagic83]

I wonder if Seattle offloading some salary to Atlanta along with Kelenic in their trade means they are in on Ohtani.  Ohtani would be a huge boost to their office and imagine Ohtani in their rotation. 

[TommyPickles]

The whole "how would sports stars of the past hold up in today's game" arguments that sports fans have always go in the same circles.

[E-D-D-I-E]

13 hours ago, Oriole1940 said:

Yes and one could make the argument that Ruth did it for a lot of years, when many if not most his MLB appearances were played with a Hangover, etc.

Thats the biggest part of my point. Ruth played for 25 years. Ohtani has had 3 good years. BTW Ohtani's average number of innings pitched per year, 64. 

[SemperFi]

11 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Perhaps the team that is making these offers see this more as a business investment than a player investment. Ohtani comes with an entire nation of support and opportunity for brand deals. (Not to mention more ticket and merch sales.)

Even if we say he's just as good as Babe Ruth and a team has a chance to get him, 600M during Tommy John surgery and his aged 30 season would make it hard to live up to that type of money for any baseball player in the history of the game.  (That one player's guaranteed salary is 3 times the most expensive payrolls' in the league.) But maybe it could satisfy that type of investment in a business venture and marketing? Hmm...

Corporate income accounted for 10% of OI for the Orioles in a Deloitte study (to determine Nationals impact), it's much larger ($ not %) for the big market teams. 

The issue with Ohtani is that almost everyone in on him is going to be in the luxury tax and likely will be for the rest of his contract so $50m is really $70m or more.  I think a good portion of the tax penalty can be offset by corporate income if you are LA, NY or Seattle other markets not so much.    

[Billy F-Face3]

3 hours ago, SemperFi said:

Corporate income accounted for 10% of OI for the Orioles in a Deloitte study (to determine Nationals impact), it's much larger ($ not %) for the big market teams. 

The issue with Ohtani is that almost everyone in on him is going to be in the luxury tax and likely will be for the rest of his contract so $50m is really $70m or more.  I think a good portion of the tax penalty can be offset by corporate income if you are LA, NY or Seattle other markets not so much.    

Seattle is not a big market by any stretch of the imagination. It's why so many home grown Mariners players usually leave when they hit free agency.  

[SemperFi]

I don't consider Seattle as a large market, I listed them as they have an opportunity to leverage Ohtani that other markets cannot.  There is a substantial Japanese presence in Seattle, I worked for a Japanese company for 25 years and after NY it was the most desired destination.  I had heard a unconfirmed rumor that 30-40% of Ichiro's salary was covered by marketing.

However, in terms of revenue Seattle generated roughly $100m more a year more than the O's and the 4 teams closest to them are the Angels, Rangers, Phillies and the Cardinals-each of which I would consider large market teams financially. 

[EddeeEddee]

On 12/4/2023 at 11:02 AM, Moose Milligan said:

I love it when people talk about financial irresponsibility when it's not their money.

It is our money.  I can barely afford to go to a game here in LA, ticket and concession prices being driven up by these insane salaries.  But I'm not really opposed to baseball players making lots of money -- just a single position player making 20% of the entire team's payroll when no single position player has that kind of on field value.  It's not like it's a star quarterback or star shooting guard who's on the field nearly half the game.