Means discusses his timetable to return

[Bemorewins]

38 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

The O's have already taken some of their overabundance of position player talent and turned that into the requisite pitching talent needed for the postseason. They'll absolutely do it again if the right deal presents itself. They're not going to force a hypothetical move that we as fans have no idea if it may even be an option.

Bemoaning the fact that their #8 SP option is ONLY a high upside AAA pitcher is a choice, I guess.

Kyle Bradish and the bullpen couldn't pull out a close Game 1 when the bats went cold, and then Grayson finally hit a rough start in his second half. Sure, Means got hurt and Kremer looked overmatched against the Texas lineup, but they were absolutely rolling by that point. Patting yourself on the back for the outcome of those three games as if we wouldn't have rolled Bradish and Grayson out there and felt good in any series is just self-aggrandizing nonsense. No team is going to have 5 all-stars; the Rangers rolled Dunning and Heaney out there in Game 1.

I'm not into patting myself on the back. Nor am I interested in going back and forth with you in an attempt to insult one another.

I didn't believe that we had the necessary starting pitching that would be up to the task for the post season last year and that's how things played out. I took ZERO joy in being right. But was VERY disappointed like most fans.

However, coming into this year I felt that we HAD the type of rotation that could take us deeper into October (after the Burnes acquisition). But then the injuries happen, which is sort of unavoidable as almost all teams go through them.

To be clear, I have absolutely no confidence whatsoever in Irvin, but I believe that we can survive for the first few months of the season given our softer early season schedule. Hopefully our injured guys come back and are effective. If not, I hope we make a meaningful trade (unlike last season).

[ThisIsBirdland]

18 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I'm not into patting myself on the back. Nor am I interested in going back and forth with you in an attempt to insult one another.

I didn't believe that we had the necessary starting pitching that would be up to the task for the post season last year and that's how things played out. I took ZERO joy in being right. But was VERY disappointed like most fans.

However, coming into this year I felt that we HAD the type of rotation that could take us deeper into October (after the Burnes acquisition). But then the injuries happen, which is sort of unavoidable as almost all teams go through them.

To be clear, I have absolutely no confidence whatsoever in Irvin, but I believe that we can survive for the first few months of the season given our softer early season schedule. Hopefully our injured guys come back and are effective. If not, I hope we make a meaningful trade (unlike last season).

My comment was too forceful and unnecessary, I apologize.

It's not that I don't want to see the O's pursue more pitching either, or that I trust Means and Bradish to both be relied upon this year. I think the O's could pursue another trade or that they should have had the budget flexibility to have pursued Snell or Montgomery. The fact that we've always heard they were "checking in" on the high priced SPs previously signed but only if their market cooled off just doesn't hold up given what we've seen with the Snell/Montgomery markets. Maybe it's all because of the sale, maybe they don't like these specific pitchers, or maybe they were never going to commit real money to a free agent SP.

Even with all of that though, I still think we sometimes have unrealistic expectations of the talent teams should enter the season with with their #7-#9 SPs. I'm content with trying out McDermott and Povich this summer if they start off well in AAA. If they don't, or if they falter early in the MLB, utilize the trade deadline. 

[Orioles0615]

On 3/20/2024 at 3:37 AM, Billy F-Face3 said:

By then McDermott or one of the other developing prospects will probably be ready to be promoted.

Ok, this is the team that doesn't like multiple rookie hitters on the team at once because of "adjustment" periods.  So we are going to instead rely on a rookie pitcher ....

[Tony-OH]

21 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Many posters believed that our pitching was fine last year and we saw how that went once we got into October. I would hate to unnecessarily have a repeat of that. As of now, we only have Adley for 3 more years after this one and Gunnar for 4 after this season. 

I don't think this is necessarily true. Bradish pitched well, the moment was just too big for Grayson at this point in his career, and the Texas offense was just white hot and demolished Kremer. Out of them, Kremer is the only one I would have rather had a better option.

I'm wondering if Means is just really on a load program that will allow him the best chance to be pitching well by the end of the year. The one thing we sometimes forget is that Means has never made it through a season without an IL stint. He's had struggles in the second half of seasons.

Now the Orioles can't say they're doing this because a player has to be legitimately hurt/rehabbing in order to be on the IL, but what it this is all to make sure we have a healthy, fresh Means in September/October? 

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't think this is necessarily true. Bradish pitched well, the moment was just too big for Grayson at this point in his career, and the Texas offense was just white hot and demolished Kremer. Out of them, Kremer is the only one I would have rather had a better option.

I'm wondering if Means is just really on a load program that will allow him the best chance to be pitching well by the end of the year. The one thing we sometimes forget is that Means has never made it through a season without an IL stint. He's had struggles in the second half of seasons.

Now the Orioles can't say they're doing this because a player has to be legitimately hurt/rehabbing in order to be on the IL, but what it this is all to make sure we have a healthy, fresh Means in September/October? 

I think that's absolutely what they're doing with Means, without saying it. During a broadcast recently, it was noted how Akin had the back injury last year and didn't have a normal offseason, but guess what he's doing? Pitching. Same happened with Hall last season. There's no real precedent for "delaying" a pitcher like they are with Means, who has no actual injury. Under the guise of playing it safe with the elbow, they are really just having him pitch a shorter season. At least that's my take. 

Edited March 21 by interloper

[Billy F-Face3]

On that note, Brandon Hyde was asked yesterday if he will try to manage Tyler Wells to limit his innings and lighten his load or if he will keep riding him. Hyde said he will keep riding him as long as he is pitching good because you can't try to baby him when you need him because he could still wear out anyways trying to do that. So he intends to play Tyler and let Tyler see how hus body responds. Hyde won't pull him early just to limit his pitch count more than usual.  If Wells is pitching good, Hyde will ride the hot hand.

[Bemorewins]

5 hours ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

My comment was too forceful and unnecessary, I apologize.

It's not that I don't want to see the O's pursue more pitching either, or that I trust Means and Bradish to both be relied upon this year. I think the O's could pursue another trade or that they should have had the budget flexibility to have pursued Snell or Montgomery. The fact that we've always heard they were "checking in" on the high priced SPs previously signed but only if their market cooled off just doesn't hold up given what we've seen with the Snell/Montgomery markets. Maybe it's all because of the sale, maybe they don't like these specific pitchers, or maybe they were never going to commit real money to a free agent SP.

Even with all of that though, I still think we sometimes have unrealistic expectations of the talent teams should enter the season with with their #7-#9 SPs. I'm content with trying out McDermott and Povich this summer if they start off well in AAA. If they don't, or if they falter early in the MLB, utilize the trade deadline. 

The apology is appreciated.

I agree that I would love to have seen the team pursue Snell or Montgomery, especially at the reduced costs. However, I think that until the sale is finalized there won’t be any meaningful additions to payroll.

As of right now, we should be ok given (in non-Irvin starts) until the end of May. IMO our best hope is that Means and Bradish return and are effective. Or if not, that we add to the rotation at the deadline.

I would hope that for a team with World Series aspirations that we wouldn’t be relying upon both McDermott and Povich to be an effective 2/5ths of our starting rotation down the stretch of the season. 

IMO when you are an org with this level of positional player talent and depth combined with a payroll that is this low, that is an unnecessary risk. It is akin to what we did last season. IMO last season’s trade deadline was an unforced error in terms of failing to effectively add to the team with any player(s) that could help us.

There are only so many bites at the apple that you will get, especially when you have not resigned any of your elite young players. Right now, we are on a clock with Adley (3 more seasons after this one) and Gunnar (4 more). I don’t want to see us squander our opportunities for a pennant. 

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

 

I'm wondering if Means is just really on a load program that will allow him the best chance to be pitching well by the end of the year. The one thing we sometimes forget is that Means has never made it through a season without an IL stint. He's had struggles in the second half of seasons.

That's what it sounds like. Unless they are not telling us something, they haven't mentioned any setback since the ALDS. They just said he is ramping up slowly, approximately a month behind the other pitchers.

[Bemorewins]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't think this is necessarily true. Bradish pitched well, the moment was just too big for Grayson at this point in his career, and the Texas offense was just white hot and demolished Kremer. Out of them, Kremer is the only one I would have rather had a better option.

I'm wondering if Means is just really on a load program that will allow him the best chance to be pitching well by the end of the year. The one thing we sometimes forget is that Means has never made it through a season without an IL stint. He's had struggles in the second half of seasons.

Now the Orioles can't say they're doing this because a player has to be legitimately hurt/rehabbing in order to be on the IL, but what it this is all to make sure we have a healthy, fresh Means in September/October? 

The point about Means is well taken. Given his injury history, I hope that approach proves to be effective.

As far as last season goes, Flaherty was predictably a big nothing which left us a starter short. Kremer is a solid #5 starter. IMO not the guy that you want to give the ball to with your season on the line.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

As far as last season goes, Flaherty was predictably a big nothing which left us a starter short. Kremer is a solid #5 starter. IMO not the guy that you want to give the ball to with your season on the line.

Agreed, which is why I said he's the one they needed to upgrade. Burnes is that upgrade IF Bradish eventually is able to come back and is the Bradish of 2023.

[ThisIsBirdland]

Not sure if this was posted anywhere else this evening. 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Not sure if this was posted anywhere else this evening. 

Thanks for posting this.  I had assumed based on recent comments from Means that he’d start a rehab assignment virtually as soon as the MiL season opened.  Great to see that confirmed!

[sportsfan8703]

8 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Not sure if this was posted anywhere else this evening. 

This is good news. I didn’t know he was close to being ready for actual games.

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

This is good news. I didn’t know he was close to being ready for actual games.

I expected it based on this from March 16.

 

[Going Underground]

Also looks like AAA is also starting earlier this year as well. First tides game is March 29th. So possibly about 30 days after he starts a game ,Means could be up if all goes well. May 1st?