Means discusses his timetable to return

[HandsomeQuack]

The "if we get anything from Means this season, it's a bonus" sentiment feels like a bit much. I don't get the sense that the injury is that serious. He could suffer from another injury later, but that's the case with anyone.

[Say O!]

18 minutes ago, HandsomeQuack said:

The "if we get anything from Means this season, it's a bonus" sentiment feels like a bit much. I don't get the sense that the injury is that serious. He could suffer from another injury later, but that's the case with anyone.

Agree. Starting to feel more and more like precautionary load management program. 

[spleen1015]

21 minutes ago, HandsomeQuack said:

The "if we get anything from Means this season, it's a bonus" sentiment feels like a bit much. I don't get the sense that the injury is that serious. He could suffer from another injury later, but that's the case with anyone.

Dude comes back from TJ, gets injured again. Gets injured again over the winter, comes into ST hurt.

I'll believe he's going to be a contributor when he actually contributes.

[maybenxtyr]

He had TJ surgery on May 11, 2022. He's pitched a total of 23.2 innings in 22 months, along with 2 other injuries. I don't see how anyone should have any expectations for him this season. He would probably be a fine option as a 4-5 starter behind Burnes, Bradish and Rodriguez, but the it appears as though he's being expected to be something he's really not.

[oriole]

23 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

Dude comes back from TJ, gets injured again. Gets injured again over the winter, comes into ST hurt.

I'll believe he's going to be a contributor when he actually contributes.

This is where I’m at too. I love John Means for being a bright spot on some bad teams, but unfortunately I don’t think he is going to a big part of any winning season.

Unless I’m wrong and he wins come back player of the year, I don’t know. I don’t have a crystal ball. Just a hunch.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Yossarian said:

The pessimist in me doesn't expect anything from Mrans this year and has pretty much written him off as a key contributor to Orioles baseball in the future.   I also don't expect to see Bradish back and contributing until mid 2025.

Sounds like the pessimist in you is pretty much all of you.  

[HandsomeQuack]

27 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

He had TJ surgery on May 11, 2022. He's pitched a total of 23.2 innings in 22 months, along with 2 other injuries. I don't see how anyone should have any expectations for him this season. He would probably be a fine option as a 4-5 starter behind Burnes, Bradish and Rodriguez, but the it appears as though he's being expected to be something he's really not.

I completely understand where you and others are coming from. But as far as projecting future innings... he's not getting a second Tommy John. I don't see him as DeGrom level, injury wise, where literally anything feels like a bonus. As far as we know, he should be back in late April and healthy moving forward.

[Billy F-Face3]

12 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I think the rotation can survive "as is" until about June. But the June and July schedule is brutal. Usually Wells breaks down around then and Irvin (IMO) is not going to be effective against good teams with good to elite right handed hitters, not even in Camden. He's just not good enough to be a rotation main stay on a contender IMO.

Hopefully Means (and Bradish for that matter) return before or at the latest by June.

By then McDermott or one of the other developing prospects will probably be ready to be promoted.

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

By then McDermott or one of the other developing prospects will probably be ready to be promoted.

Ready to do what? Be an effective starter into October? Be an adequate replacement for Bradish? Have you looked at the schedule in June and July? You think a guy like McDermott will consistently face those lineups and succeed?

If so, you are much more confident than I am. 

For as much as we have an abundance of positional talent throughout the org, IMO we are equally as absent of starting pitching talent.

Hopefully unlike last year, when the deadline arises we will address whatever we need to instead bypassing the opportunity when it appears.

[Billy F-Face3]

8 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Ready to do what? Be an effective starter into October? Be an adequate replacement for Bradish? Have you looked at the schedule in June and July? You think a guy like McDermott will consistently face those lineups and succeed?

If so, you are much more confident than I am. 

For as much as we have an abundance of positional talent throughout the org, IMO we are equally as absent of starting pitching talent.

Hopefully unlike last year, when the deadline arises we will address whatever we need to instead bypassing the opportunity when it appears.

Kyle Bradish was never hyped up as a high ranking prospect either and yet he was arguably the best Orioles pitcher in only his softmore season. It can happen for any one of our developing pitching prospects. Ramsey is a very good pitching coach in Norfolk.

[Bemorewins]

9 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Kyle Bradish was never hyped up as a high ranking prospect either and yet he was arguably the best Orioles pitcher in only his softmore season. It can happen for any one of our developing pitching prospects. Ramsey is a very good pitching coach in Norfolk.

Do you think that Bradish is the exception or the norm?

Obviously it would be wonderful to continue to churn out top level Major League pitchers out of guys who were never considered top level Minor League talents. I'm just not sure if that is realistic and should be relied upon to consistently replicate.

Seems like the wiser play would be to take from some of the overabundance of position player talent and turn that into the requisite pitching talent that a team needs to succeed into the postseason. No?

Many posters believed that our pitching was fine last year and we saw how that went once we got into October. I would hate to unnecessarily have a repeat of that. As of now, we only have Adley for 3 more years after this one and Gunnar for 4 after this season. 

[Billy F-Face3]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Do you think that Bradish is the exception or the norm?

Obviously it would be wonderful to continue to churn out top level Major League pitchers out of guys who were never considered top level Minor League talents. I'm just not sure if that is realistic and should be relied upon to consistently replicate.

Seems like the wiser play would be to take from some of the overabundance of position player talent and turn that into the requisite pitching talent that a team needs to succeed into the postseason. No?

Many posters believed that our pitching was fine last year and we saw how that went once we got into October. I would hate to unnecessarily have a repeat of that. As of now, we only have Adley for 3 more years after this one and Gunnar for 4 after this season. 

You're operating on an assumption that Bradish is out for the season. But all we have to go on is what Bradish and the Orioles have said, which is that he is not having surgery for a sprain, and they are rehabing with the assumption that he will return at some point this season. Even if he doesn't, John Means is returning in late April. We might not have big (over rated) names all over the rotation but we do have the depth talent to survive until then. And this front office has been good at leaving no stone unturned to find decent contributors (see 2021 Cionel Perez, 2022 version Austin Voth, 2023 Danny Coulombe & Jacob Webb).

We also did exactly what you suggested when we traded for Corbin Burnes.

[ThisIsBirdland]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Do you think that Bradish is the exception or the norm?

Obviously it would be wonderful to continue to churn out top level Major League pitchers out of guys who were never considered top level Minor League talents. I'm just not sure if that is realistic and should be relied upon to consistently replicate.

Seems like the wiser play would be to take from some of the overabundance of position player talent and turn that into the requisite pitching talent that a team needs to succeed into the postseason. No?

Many posters believed that our pitching was fine last year and we saw how that went once we got into October. I would hate to unnecessarily have a repeat of that. As of now, we only have Adley for 3 more years after this one and Gunnar for 4 after this season. 

The O's have already taken some of their overabundance of position player talent and turned that into the requisite pitching talent needed for the postseason. They'll absolutely do it again if the right deal presents itself. They're not going to force a hypothetical move that we as fans have no idea if it may even be an option.

Bemoaning the fact that their #8 SP option is ONLY a high upside AAA pitcher is a choice, I guess.

Kyle Bradish and the bullpen couldn't pull out a close Game 1 when the bats went cold, and then Grayson finally hit a rough start in his second half. Sure, Means got hurt and Kremer looked overmatched against the Texas lineup, but they were absolutely rolling by that point. Patting yourself on the back for the outcome of those three games as if we wouldn't have rolled Bradish and Grayson out there and felt good in any series is just self-aggrandizing nonsense. No team is going to have 5 all-stars; the Rangers rolled Dunning and Heaney out there in Game 1.

[Billy F-Face3]

Simply put, it makes no sense to burn money on depth peices you can get for litterly 91% less cost than an $8M AAV salary pitcher.

[Bemorewins]

37 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

You're operating on an assumption that Bradish is out for the season. But all we have to go on is what Bradish and the Orioles have said, which is that he is not having surgery for a sprain, and they are rehabing with the assumption that he will return at some point this season. Even if he doesn't, John Means is returning in late April. We might not have big (over rated) names all over the rotation but we do have the depth talent to survive until then. And this front office has been good at leaving no stone unturned to find decent contributors (see 2021 Cionel Perez, 2022 version Austin Voth, 2023 Danny Coulombe & Jacob Webb).

We also did exactly what you suggested when we traded for Corbin Burnes.

I hope Bradish returns to the same pitcher that he was this season. I am not sure that will happen but I have hope. 

As far as Means is concerned, I doubt have much belief at this point that he will stay healthy. 

Yes, I agree that Corbin Burnes was a great trade for us. My point is that we will need to make more of those kinds of trades because of the imbalance of our talent composition.