Bullpen 2024

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Bradish didn’t have issues until January. 

And the season started in January?

[Ripken]

Dave and Co. just got here so they deserve some time but for this team to take the next step it has to stop being cheap.  There were FA pitchers out there who could have helped.  There were also trades that could have been made from our deep prospect pool.  Sure, that would have lessened our depth and cost the O's some low cost player years, but both of those are also solvable by spending some money.  The money hoarding cartel is gone and it's time to start acting like a team that wants to win the trophy.

[Moose Milligan]

15 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I don't think Elias is being cocky.   I think it's only April.  Let's see how things shake out with everyone coming back.  Every contender wants to add an elite bullpen piece at the deadline.  

I think he might be cocky with his ability to turn guys around.  

You're right, every contender wants to add elite bullpen pieces.  He should have done it this offseason.  

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And the season started in January?

Nope but a bunch of the off-season was already over. 
 

I thought all along this team would make a move at some point to help the pen. That said the whole conversation basically right now comes down to Kimbrel. The Orioles rank 10th in AL in ERA but also rank 3rd in K rate. The pen has not been a disaster. The closer had a real bad week. Baumann has not been good and the last spot since Perez went down has struggled. 

[sportsfan8703]

In the next 7-10 days we could add Means, Suarez, Perez, and Wells to this pen.  That's a big boost.  Ramirez and Baumann definitely go.  We replace single inning relievers with multi inning ones.  This isn't fantasy baseball.  Trades aren't happening in April.  Lets be really happy that we have internal options.  

[Warehouse]

16 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think we're going to see someone get DFA'd today possibly that is out of options.  Like Baumann.  Whether that is for Baker or Vespi we will see.  

The problem is we don’t have any right-handed relievers at Norfolk that are doing well.  Baker has a 17% BB rate.  McDermott, Armbruester, and Ort all have a BB% over 14.5%.  That leaves Charles, Hoffman, Heasley, and Stallings, none of whom have a FIP or xFIP < 4.  Elias should it make it a priority to get better depth options to Norfolk.
 

Maybe we go with a lefty heavy pen vs the Yankees. Perhaps we could reinstate Perez after his two rehab appearances, though his results have been middling, velo seems down a tick, and I didn’t have much confidence in Perez to start with.  Otherwise it might be Vespi.

[sportsfan8703]

19 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think he might be cocky with his ability to turn guys around.  

You're right, every contender wants to add elite bullpen pieces.  He should have done it this offseason.  

I'll never argue against spending FA money.  It's not my money.  I want us to win at all costs.  However, we don't know what the deal was with JA.  We don't know what the deal is with Rubenstein.  Maybe Elias wanted to leave himself some budget to improve the team at the deadline.  I was banging the table for a guy like Adam Ottavino or David Roberston, but the truth is any reliever we would've signed would be worn down like the rest of the A squad of the pen.

There's no magical solution walking through that door.  Our recipe for winning needs to change.  The starters need to start going deeper into games.  Maybe Suarez and Means will be big boosts for the middle innings.  Fingers crossed.  

Edited April 29 by sportsfan8703

[OnlyOneOriole]

5 minutes ago, Warehouse said:

The problem is we don’t have any right-handed relievers at Norfolk that are doing well.  Baker has a 17% BB rate.  McDermott, Armbruester, and Ort all have a BB% over 14.5%.  That leaves Charles, Hoffman, Heasley, and Stallings, none of whom have a FIP or xFIP < 4.  Elias should it make it a priority to get better depth options to Norfolk.
 

Maybe we go with a lefty heavy pen vs the Yankees. Perhaps we could reinstate Perez after his two rehab appearances, though his results have been middling, velo seems down a tick, and I didn’t have much confidence in Perez to start with.  Otherwise it might be Vespi.

Yeah the Perez of old would have been a good choice. 

 

Now?   You just can't.

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Nope but a bunch of the off-season was already over. 
 

 

And a bunch of the offseason was still there to be had, so that’s a bs excuse.

And it was a known need the entire offseason.  It was the single most obvious issue with the team, outside of the need for a TOR starter.

[Frobby]

16 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

This is probably observational bias.

It's funny how often overachieving teams have really lock down bullpens and how often otherwise stacked teams are let down by weak bullpens.

It's April but I don't think any of us were not concerned about the bullpen going into the season. 

Oh, there were definitely people concerned about the bullpen.  Not everyone, but lots of people.  I wasn’t particularly opinionated on the topic.   As recently as Thursday I would have argued that the bullpen had been pretty decent.  That was a tough weekend.  

[Philip]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Oh, I wasn't aware that everyone agreed that the roster shuffling doesn't matter.

 

How many times during 2018 did Buck say,”This is who we have.”? It was infuriating, because He and/or Dan was the guy who assembled the group.

This is who we have. The roster  shuffling discussion is just how best to use the guys we have.

Mike is reluctant to trade away any of his surplus, and would rather have the useless Ramirez than Vespi or Povich, so this is what we have.

And it’s infuriating.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

Oh, there were definitely people concerned about the bullpen.  Not everyone, but lots of people.  I wasn’t particularly opinionated on the topic.   As recently as Thursday I would have argued that the bullpen had been pretty decent.  That was a tough weekend.  

The bullpen, when healthy, is a good pen but it’s not good enough especially in the highest of high leverage situations against the best teams.  
 

People saying the pen has done a good job so far is all well and good but it’s also pretty irrelevant and the sample size of it is pretty small.

You have mentioned that the pen wasn’t great last year and we won 101 games.  That is another irrelevant point imo. Last year was last year and this year is this year.

 

[eddie83]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And a bunch of the offseason was still there to be had, so that’s a bs excuse.

And it was a known need the entire offseason.  It was the single most obvious issue with the team, outside of the need for a TOR starter.

Yes, because pitchers like Bradish are readily available.

90% of the bullpen issues right now is about Kimbrel. Is he healthy? What’s going on. 
 

Webb, Tate and Cano have been fine. So have Akin and Coulombe. It’s not like this club has lost a bunch of games because the set up guys are awful.  
 

The lack of depth at AAA is on Elias. That said strong late game arms don’t grow on trees. He also thought Wells would be an option. 

[dystopia]

The O’s had the 5th best bullpen by ERA in 2023. We had a good ‘pen last year. The problem this year is a lack of depth. 

[Philip]

37 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think we're going to see someone get DFA'd today possibly that is out of options.  Like Baumann.  Whether that is for Baker or Vespi we will see.  

Baker is hardly an upgrade.