John Means 2024

[MCO'sFan]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

Hoping he just steadily progresses. Really would like to bounce Cole Irvin from this rotation. Means at least knows where the ball is going most of the time. 

Irvin is the unluckiest pitcher or he just isn't good enough to pitch out of things when they go wrong. He is not a starting pitcher though. If Means stays the full 30 days then that takes him to the 28th or 29th of April. So hopefully, he's health and back in the rotation the first week in May. I was surprised to see Bradish go out on a rehab so soon. Of course, we don't know yet when he'll actually start the 30 day clock, but he and Means could both be back as soon as mid to late May. 

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Well we might be getting Means and Bradish starting today. No starter listed for Aberdeen. 

We’ll probably try and bump Means up to 60ish pitches from 50 his last start. Just one inning for Bradish. 

Fingers crossed guys and gals. 

Makes sense that Bradish would go today.  You don’t send a pitcher to start a rehab assignment and then have them sit around for several days before they pitch.   

I was listening to Locked on Orioles yesterday, and it was pointed out that if Bradish isn’t quite ready when his 30 day rehab ends, he still has two options left.   
 

[Going Underground]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Makes sense that Bradish would go today.  You don’t send a pitcher to start a rehab assignment and then have them sit around for several days before they pitch.   

I was listening to Locked on Orioles yesterday, and it was pointed out that if Bradish isn’t quite ready when his 30 day rehab ends, he still has two options left.   
 

The weather in Aberdeen doesn't look ideal. Plus not sure you would want Bradish first game back on a wet mound.

Tonight

Showers and possibly a thunderstorm. Low around 55. Breezy, with a south wind 17 to 21 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New rainfall amounts between a quarter and half of an inch possible.

[Going Underground]

2 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

The weather in Aberdeen doesn't look ideal. Plus not sure you would want Bradish first game back on a wet mound.

Tonight

Showers and possibly a thunderstorm. Low around 55. Breezy, with a south wind 17 to 21 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New rainfall amounts between a quarter and half of an inch possible.

Weather in Norfolk also doesn't look that great.

[Going Underground]

2 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Weather in Norfolk also doesn't look that great.

Didn't realize Tides game was at 12. Should get the game in.

[Bemorewins]

55 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

Irvin is the unluckiest pitcher or he just isn't good enough to pitch out of things when they go wrong. He is not a starting pitcher though. If Means stays the full 30 days then that takes him to the 28th or 29th of April. So hopefully, he's health and back in the rotation the first week in May. I was surprised to see Bradish go out on a rehab so soon. Of course, we don't know yet when he'll actually start the 30 day clock, but he and Means could both be back as soon as mid to late May. 

I know that you are not saying this as a definitive, but when I see people say Irvin is unlucky, my response is how? I know not everyone consumes the games the same say and some follow through, gamecast, boxscores, other type of statcast sources of info. But to those who watch him pitch, I struggle to see a reasonable conclusion drawn for his lack of success that can be explained as "unlucky".

From what my non-trained eye can detect, he simply does not possess the talent/stuff profile to be a very good starting pitching on a contending team. The velo being very low 90's, without a plus change, and he does not have good command. There are some ABs routinely where he just totally loses the strike zone.

I respect that he tried to redefine his pitch arsenal/repertoire in the offseason (as I always respect pros who continue to work on their craft). But he's just not that good. And the more times he goes through the lineup, it usually doesn't go well. He struggles to have clean innings and the bases are usually littered with traffic. 

I respect that he had a short stretch last year of effective/decent starts. But IMO he is not a guy that I would want or believe should be starting on a playoff caliber team. Thankfully, he is only a "fill-in for now for us" and hopefully he will be gone soon. Maybe to the bullpen? But even that looks iffy because Akin is already occupying the role that he would have some use in. 

[Aglets]

9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I know that you are not saying this as a definitive, but when I see people say Irvin is unlucky, my response is how? I know not everyone consumes the games the same say and some follow through, gamecast, boxscores, other type of statcast sources of info. But to those who watch him pitch, I struggle to see a reasonable conclusion drawn for his lack of success that can be explained as "unlucky".

From what my non-trained eye can detect, he simply does not possess the talent/stuff profile to be a very good starting pitching on a contending team. The velo being very low 90's, without a plus change, and he does not have good command. There are some ABs routinely where he just totally loses the strike zone.

I respect that he tried to redefine his pitch arsenal/repertoire in the offseason (as I always respect pros who continue to work on their craft). But he's just not that good. And the more times he goes through the lineup, it usually doesn't go well. He struggles to have clean innings and the bases are usually littered with traffic. 

I respect that he had a short stretch last year of effective/decent starts. But IMO he is not a guy that I would want or believe should be starting on a playoff caliber team. Thankfully, he is only a "fill-in for now for us" and hopefully he will be gone soon. Maybe to the bullpen? But even that looks iffy because Akin is already occupying the role that he would have some use in. 

One way he was unlucky last night was he struck out a guy (should have been the 3rd out of the inning) but the umpire blew the call and awarded a BB.   Next guy hit a 2 run homer.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I know that you are not saying this as a definitive, but when I see people say Irvin is unlucky, my response is how? I know not everyone consumes the games the same say and some follow through, gamecast, boxscores, other type of statcast sources of info. But to those who watch him pitch, I struggle to see a reasonable conclusion drawn for his lack of success that can be explained as "unlucky".

From what my non-trained eye can detect, he simply does not possess the talent/stuff profile to be a very good starting pitching on a contending team. The velo being very low 90's, without a plus change, and he does not have good command. There are some ABs routinely where he just totally loses the strike zone.

I respect that he tried to redefine his pitch arsenal/repertoire in the offseason (as I always respect pros who continue to work on their craft). But he's just not that good. And the more times he goes through the lineup, it usually doesn't go well. He struggles to have clean innings and the bases are usually littered with traffic. 

I respect that he had a short stretch last year of effective/decent starts. But IMO he is not a guy that I would want or believe should be starting on a playoff caliber team. Thankfully, he is only a "fill-in for now for us" and hopefully he will be gone soon. Maybe to the bullpen? But even that looks iffy because Akin is already occupying the role that he would have some use in. 

He’s going to get at least 3 more starts before Means returns, I suspect, so we’ll see how he does.   On your last point, I think a lot of posters totally overrate the typical performance of a 5th starter on a “playoff caliber team.” 

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Makes sense that Bradish would go today.  You don’t send a pitcher to start a rehab assignment and then have them sit around for several days before they pitch.   

I was listening to Locked on Orioles yesterday, and it was pointed out that if Bradish isn’t quite ready when his 30 day rehab ends, he still has two options left.   
 

Good point with Bradish and the milb option he has left. I imagine they take things extremely careful with him. Maybe his first two starts are only 1 IP. 

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Good point with Bradish and the milb option he has left. I imagine they take things extremely careful with him. Maybe his first two starts are only 1 IP. 

It probably depends on how many pitches he throws.  Means only threw 1 inning in his first outing, but it took him 32 pitches (and 7 runs) to do it, so it’s not surprising they didn’t send him out for a 2nd inning.  Then they let him go 50 pitches/3 innings the next time out.

Now, I realize that Bradish is in a different situation since he had a partial UCL tear whereas Means’ delayed start was more precautionary than anything else.   But I still wouldn’t be surprised to see him throw 2 innings if he gets through the first one in 15-17 pitches.  I guess we’ll find out soon enough (though maybe not today, given the forecast).    
 

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He’s going to get at least 3 more starts before Means returns, I suspect, so we’ll see how he does.   On your last point, I think a lot of posters totally overrate the typical performance of a 5th starter on a “playoff caliber team.” 

That's a fair point. But when I look at what it usually takes to win this division and be one of the best teams in the sport, I think about sustaining some winning streaks and avoiding longer losing streaks through the course of the season. Like we did last year.

Every time Irvin starts against any team with even a decent offense, I think we are in trouble. I think this will be an uphill battle and the bats better swing it today in order for us to win. I have no confidence in Irvin and just don't believe in his talent.

With Wells his homer issues are very well documented, but at least I feel like we have a good chance of getting a quality start. Kremer (who was originally slatted to be the 5th starter) I know will be up and down, I there is some volatility there in terms of the range of outcomes from excellent to awful in any given start. But Irvin, rarely do you get the good/a quality start. Usually even when he is "effective" in terms of results, it comes with a ton of traffic on the bases. IMO he's just not that good.

[Bemorewins]

25 minutes ago, Aglets said:

One way he was unlucky last night was he struck out a guy (should have been the 3rd out of the inning) but the umpire blew the call and awarded a BB.   Next guy hit a 2 run homer.

Take away that home run and you still don't have a quality start. You still have a ton of traffic on the bases. You still don't have clean innings.

[Ohfan67]

15 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

That's a fair point. But when I look at what it usually takes to win this division and be one of the best teams in the sport, I think about sustaining some winning streaks and avoiding longer losing streaks through the course of the season. Like we did last year.

Every time Irvin starts against any team with even a decent offense, I think we are in trouble. I think this will be an uphill battle and the bats better swing it today in order for us to win. I have no confidence in Irvin and just don't believe in his talent.

With Wells his homer issues are very well documented, but at least I feel like we have a good chance of getting a quality start. Kremer (who was originally slatted to be the 5th starter) I know will be up and down, I there is some volatility there in terms of the range of outcomes from excellent to awful in any given start. But Irvin, rarely do you get the good/a quality start. Usually even when he is "effective" in terms of results, it comes with a ton of traffic on the bases. IMO he's just not that good.

Unless there are additional injuries, then Irvin will be starting in Norfolk in about three weeks. He’s insurance that they unfortunately had to use. 

[Aglets]

25 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Take away that home run and you still don't have a quality start. You still have a ton of traffic on the bases. You still don't have clean innings.

I would certainly never imply that my dream is that Irvin spends all of 2024 in the rotation.  He is definitely the weakest link right now.  But it's also true that the ump made it harder for him last night than necessary.

[mlrhode]

28 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Unless there are additional injuries, then Irvin will be starting in Norfolk in about three weeks. He’s insurance that they unfortunately had to use. 

Irvin is out of options