Luis De Leon 2024

[Frobby]

De Leon had a good second outing for Aberdeen, allowing one run in 4.1 IP, 4 H, 1 BB, 4 K’s.  The only run came on a solo homer.  63 pitches, 38 strikes.  Pretty pitch-efficient for 4.1 IP.

[Tony-OH]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:11 PM, Frobby said:

I’ll be the dissenter.  So long as they’re bringing him in at the start of an inning and he’s been told what do expect, it really doesn’t matter if his outing starts in the 1st inning or the 5th.  They haven’t let him go past 70 pitches in any outing this year, so it doesn’t really limit his innings a lot if he enters mid-game.  He threw 53.2 innings last year, is at 31.0 already this year with maybe 20 appearances still to come and I’d bet they don’t want him throwing more than 110 innings tops.  My guess is he’ll start about half the time and be used like this half the time.  

You are missing the point. I watched Cole Irvin warm up from my center field seats yesterday and it reiterated my point as to why a starter's routine is so important. It took him over 20 minutes to warm up from everything from arm circles, to long toss, to throwing on the field with a catcher before going to the bullpen mound. 

This is all about routine and I don't see why you break a young pitcher's routine by piggybacking him with a lesser prospect. Let him develop his routine and stick with it. 

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

You are missing the point. I watched Cole Irvin warm up from my center field seats yesterday and it reiterated my point as to why a starter's routine is so important. It took him over 20 minutes to warm up from every they from arm circles, to long toss, to throwing on the field with a  catch to going to the bullpen mound. 

This is all about routine and I don't see why you break a young pitcher's routine by piggybacking him with a lesser prospect. Let him develop his routine and stick with it. 

What you say makes sense to me.  On the other hand De Leon has started 9 games and relieved in one and Forret has started 8 and relieved in 2 so it’s not a strict every other game thing for either one.   Each has worse numbers as a reliever.

Anecdotally, I’ve noticed a lot of the middling prospects have their best outings as relievers.   At least it seems that way.   

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

You are missing the point. I watched Cole Irvin warm up from my center field seats yesterday and it reiterated my point as to why a starter's routine is so important. It took him over 20 minutes to warm up from everything from arm circles, to long toss, to throwing on the field with a catcher before going to the bullpen mound. 

This is all about routine and I don't see why you break a young pitcher's routine by piggybacking him with a lesser prospect. Let him develop his routine and stick with it. 

The point may be moot, since De Leon has started in the first inning in both his appearances since we exchanged posts.  

However, let’s say a pitcher is told, days before, “you’ll be piggybacking after Joe Blow in your next outing.  You’ll be coming into the game at the top of the 5th inning.”   What is to stop the pitcher from doing the same routine he’d usually do if he was starting in the 1st inning, just starting it a bit later?  The only difference I can see is that there might be a little more play in the exact moment the pitcher takes the mound.  An average inning takes 12-20 minutes, so maybe the pitcher would start his routine sometime in the second inning and be ready to go before the top of the 5th. 

Anyway, it would be a good question for one of the pitching coaches. 

 

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

However, let’s say a pitcher is told, days before, “you’ll be piggybacking after Joe Blow in your next outing.  You’ll be coming into the game at the top of the 5th inning.”   What is to stop the pitcher from doing the same routine he’d usually do if he was starting in the 1st inning, just starting it a bit later?  The only difference I can see is that there might be a little more play in the exact moment the pitcher takes the mound.  An average inning takes 12-20 minutes, so maybe the pitcher would start his routine sometime in the second inning and be ready to go before the top of the 5th. 

Anyway, it would be a good question for one of the pitching coaches. 

 

Because he doesn't know how long each inning will be. If he starts, he knows first pitch is at 7:05, but he does not have that luxury when he comes into games, even if he knows what inning he will start. What if he goes through his routine and there's a long inning? What if they have several quick innings and he's not through his routine?

Like you said though, this might be moot point, but this has bothered me over the last few years and DeLeon is not the first one they've done this to on occasion.

[Otter]

17 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Because he doesn't know how long each inning will be. If he starts, he knows first pitch is at 7:05, but he does not have that luxury when he comes into games, even if he knows what inning he will start. What if he goes through his routine and there's a long inning? What if they have several quick innings and he's not through his routine?

Like you said though, this might be moot point, but this has bothered me over the last few years and DeLeon is not the first one they've done this to on occasion.

Agree 100%.  Starting pitchers like and often need to have their specific routine before pitching.  It's part mental and part physical.  Everyone's arm is different and needs different amounts of time or warmups before being ready to go 100% in a game situation.  Plus, some starting pitchers like to do long toss while warming up, and if you're in the bullpen then you obviously can't do that.  I think messing with a starter's routine could also increase risk of injury.  For mediocre prospects I don't mind them switching up their routine, but I don't like messing with legit starting pitcher prospects' routines. 

[Tony-OH]

If there was an award for most disappointing prospect this year, Deleon has to be among the candidates.

His lack of command of any pitch this season, especially since he went to Aberdeen culminated in one of the most frustrating outings to watch tonight.

After getting a quick out, he kept throwing the same pitch (fastball) in the same location (down and away) to the 2nd hitter until he stuck the bat out and singled into right. 

He then got the next hitter down 0-2, and the absolute, and utter wheels feel off. He ends up walking this guy with an assortment of uncompetitive pitches. The next guy gets up and he gets behind him 3-1 (with more uncompetitive pitches), before he takes too long and gets a pitch violation for ball four to load the bases. 

He then gets ahead of the next guy 0-2, misses twice, then throws a ball right down the middle and it gets hammered for a three-run double.

He then gives up a walk and hit until the manager mercifully (Not for Deleon, but for the baseball fans and evaluators in general) takes him out of the game because he had reached 34 pitches (only 17 for strikes).

After looking like he finally got his body under control in Delmarva this year, walking just 2.3/9, he's totally lost it with Aberdeen. 

He's totally lost the feel for his slider and even his changeup, which still gets some swings and misses is not a good offering because he's only getting chase with it.

DeLeon is 21-years old. He's not 18-years old. This should have been year where he could have established himself as a legitimate prospect, but has done the opposite with his lack of command in Aberdeen.

He's still got that bowling ball fastball and his slider and change have enough movement that is he ever figures out how to command them he could still be a starter, but right now he's taken a major step backwards and right now I can't even say he gives me reliever vibes based on his lack of command.

I hope he's able to have someone works with his mechanics this offseason and he comes back a different guy but the guy I've seen at Aberdeen more times than not this season is only a prospect based on the radar gun and movement.

[Sports Guy]

Yea I agree. He was way up my list and I love him as a prospect but what he has done at Aberdeen is a huge disappointment.

[Just Regular]

Well, maybe we can make him a reliever in about 8 more years.

[Tony-OH]

13 hours ago, Just Regular said:

Well, maybe we can make him a reliever in about 8 more years.

That's funny and I know why you said that. Saying that, he is the exact kind of guy you do keep running out as a starter/piggyback multi inning guy because he does have that upside and at 21, he still can improve. 

Is his most likely a reliever now, probably. But while frustrating to watch at times, there is still promise in there.

 

[Just Regular]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That's funny and I know why you said that. Saying that, he is the exact kind of guy you do keep running out as a starter/piggyback multi inning guy because he does have that upside and at 21, he still can improve. 

Is his most likely a reliever now, probably. But while frustrating to watch at times, there is still promise in there.

It would be nice if he was pitching better.

The generation of John Means, Trey Mancini and Cedric Mullins kind of highlighted for me even if you are a mid-round guy - being able to spend all 4, 5, however many years playing baseball all season long can really help you build something.

With a few weeks to go he's taken all his turns and his arm hasn't blown up that we know of.    At 80 innings he's 3rd out of 450 pitchers in GB% in all the Minors this morning.

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

It would be nice if he was pitching better.

The generation of John Means, Trey Mancini and Cedric Mullins kind of highlighted for me even if you are a mid-round guy - being able to spend all 4, 5, however many years playing baseball all season long can really help you build something.

With a few weeks to go he's taken all his turns and his arm hasn't blown up that we know of.    At 80 innings he's 3rd out of 450 pitchers in GB% in all the Minors this morning.

Yeah, that bowling ball fastball is definitely part of that high ground ball rate and why I've liked him so much prior to him just losing his command.

Hopefully it's something mechanical, but even his body language shows his frustrations in not being up to consistently execute his pitches. He's pretty emotional on the mound and sometimes forgets the situation, like turning his back to the catcher after a strikeout when there are runners on base.

[Sports Guy]

The one thing I will say about DeLeon in Aberdeen is I have noticed they are using him in different ways.  In Delmarva, he was a starter.

In Aberdeen, he has been a starter and a reliever.

Im not saying he should be performing this bad but perhaps the change in routine has messed him up. I’m not really sure why they are doing this but I find it a bit odd.

[OriolesUpAndDowns]

When they are doing the piggy back start, if the starter gets rocked and has to come out in 2nd, does the piggy back guy come in?  Or a regular reliever?

 

[RZNJ]

42 minutes ago, OriolesUpAndDowns said:

When they are doing the piggy back start, if the starter gets rocked and has to come out in 2nd, does the piggy back guy come in?  Or a regular reliever?

 

A regular reliever.  Forret is De Leon’s piggyback partner and he didn’t come in right away.