The official “We need starting pitching” thread:

[OnlyOneOriole]

4 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I’m sorry but this is not the season to just simply “play all the young guys” and see what happens. Maybe that was okay in some recent seasons gone by. But now it’s about the wins and losses. The results matter now. What happens in 5 years is impossible to tell given so much variance between then and now. We must focus on this season.

I keep saying this over and over and over.  I said it last year in the contreversial "we will not win the WS" thread.

 

What is it about players like Urias and Mateo and Hays and even Mullins that makes you think they can help lead a team to a World Championship?

Seriously.  They are just guys.  In no way shape or form can you win it all with them.  So if you can't?  I would rather take my chances with the young guys with more potential who have a way higher ceiling. 

[Billy F-Face3]

2 hours ago, ScGO's said:

The O's really missed on Montgomery in my opinion. He's already had TJS so I think he might be fairly durable moving forward. I thought he'd be a good investment on a 4 or 5 year deal for 85-125 million, he's left handed, and he has a ring. But to not make an offer when he ends up signing for 1 year 25?

I liked trading for Burnes, but its for 1 year and we (at least the fans) didn't forsee the Bradish and Means' situations. Losing both showed our depth really isn't there yet for SP

Also, long term, what is the plan for starting pitching? Immediate and future?

I see it currently as Burnes, Grayson, ______, ______, Kremer. I think Kremer will be fine: lots of weak hits and a wind assisted dinger; today wasn't as bad as it looked. I made a comment the other day that others didn't like: Kremer is a great #5 starter on a high caliber playoff contender.

Wells and Irvin make the bullpen better if we can replace them in the rotation.  If Means returns 1) how effective is he coming back from this injury compared to what Wells and Irvin bring and 2) no matter how he performs, he's only here for 1 more year. Even if Bradish returns, he's very likely to have TJS at some point in the next year or two (just my guess after hearing Elias talk speak on Bradish today and also considering the trends in injury/surgery among elite arms)

If Bradish doesn't return or Means is equal than or less than Irvin or Wells, how long does Elias wait to make a trade? When does he think Povich is ready? McDermott? Does he feel comfortable going to Rookies for pitching help especially if they aren't a Top 100 guy? We ain't got much at AAA.

Next year, as it stands, we have Bradish (maybe), Grayson, Kremer, Wells, Irvin, Povich, McDermott? In the past the Orioles don't spend money on FA starters. Still probably two seasons before we see results from Elias and Perez' efforts in the International market. We got some decent starter prospects scattered between Bowie and Aberdeen. But, worst case Scenario, we are looking at ______, Grayson, _______, _______, Kremer; we need to fill in the blanks effectively if we want to compete for a World Series in 2025

So what's the plan Mike?

I think there's a good chance we could see Seth Johnson take his place in the starting rotation for 2025.

[Billy F-Face3]

11 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I keep saying this over and over and over.  I said it last year in the contreversial "we will not win the WS" thread.

 

What is it about players like Urias and Mateo and Hays and even Mullins that makes you think they can help lead a team to a World Championship?

Seriously.  They are just guys.  In no way shape or form can you win it all with them.  So if you can't?  I would rather take my chances with the young guys with more potential who have a way higher ceiling. 

Those guys broke the Orioles out of losing and gave them their first winning record in YEARS during the 2022 season. The only prospect players that was up for most of the season was Adley and Kyle Bradish. Maybe you can count Vavra and Stowers but they were only half a season. Gunnar wasn't called up until August 31. Hays, Mateo, Urias, and Santander were all the heart of the roster in that lineup that won the Orioles their first winning record in about 7 YEARS, putting an end to the Eeyore era of losing. If it wasn't for Urias hitting home runs, the Orioles would have lost a couple close games against the Astros that season. If it wasn't for Mateo, the Orioles would have lost a couple games to the Red Sox.

 

Now with that said, 2022 seems to have maybe been an outlier with guys like Urias and Mateo. Their baseline is probably going to be a little worst than that, but probably not as bad as we've seen at the worst. Hays is just in a slump this year. I don't know how long it will take for him to get out of it, but when he does I expect him to be pretty good. Defensively, he's one of the best left fielders in baseball and the Orioles won thanks to a few plays he made last season with his glove.

[Hallas]

I can't believe both Montgomery and Snell signed 1 year deals and we were barely mentioned with either one to be honest.

 

Our bullpen would look a lot better with Wells in it.  He can throw 95 in the pen, he tops out at 93 as a starter.

 

I don't want to give the O's too much flack because the Burnes pickup was the biggest move of any team last offseason.  But man, it really feels like we overestimated how far along Means and Bradish would be.

Edited April 14 by Hallas

[OnlyOneOriole]

1 hour ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Those guys broke the Orioles out of losing and gave them their first winning record in YEARS during the 2022 season. The only prospect players that was up for most of the season was Adley and Kyle Bradish. Maybe you can count Vavra and Stowers but they were only half a season. Gunnar wasn't called up until August 31. Hays, Mateo, Urias, and Santander were all the heart of the roster in that lineup that won the Orioles their first winning record in about 7 YEARS, putting an end to the Eeyore era of losing. If it wasn't for Urias hitting home runs, the Orioles would have lost a couple close games against the Astros that season. If it wasn't for Mateo, the Orioles would have lost a couple games to the Red Sox.

 

Now with that said, 2022 seems to have maybe been an outlier with guys like Urias and Mateo. Their baseline is probably going to be a little worst than that, but probably not as bad as we've seen at the worst. Hays is just in a slump this year. I don't know how long it will take for him to get out of it, but when he does I expect him to be pretty good. Defensively, he's one of the best left fielders in baseball and the Orioles won thanks to a few plays he made last season with his glove.

Agree with everything that you wrote. Those guys for sure broke us out of our loser ways.  For that I thank them.

 

But we are not going to win a WS, or multiple WS, with those guys.   As hard as it is, sometimes you need to let go of the past to go ahead in the future.

[Malike]

1 hour ago, Hallas said:

I can't believe both Montgomery and Snell signed 1 year deals and we were barely mentioned with either one to be honest.

 

Our bullpen would look a lot better with Wells in it.  He can throw 95 in the pen, he tops out at 93 as a starter.

 

I don't want to give the O's too much flack because the Burnes pickup was the biggest move of any team last offseason.  But man, it really feels like we overestimated how far along Means and Bradish would be.

Snell has pitched 3 bad innings and he's clearly not ready to start and Montgomery will not be starting until May according to reports. Neither of them would help us right now. I understand what you are saying, but they wouldn't have helped the team in April.

[Safelykept]

8 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I am going to disagree.....for right now. 

 

If....BIG IF....both Means and Bradish pitch from May through the rest of the year than I am more than happy with that staff.  A top 4 of Burnes, G Rod, Means and Bradish is as good as any in baseball.  Assuming....again big IF....they all stay healthy.  Add in Kremer and that is a very solid 5.

 

I am more concerned about our run production.  If we are going to struggle, I would rather do so with AAA guys like Heston, Mayo, Stowers, and Norby.  Guys that will be here for the next 5 years and are an actual part of the future.  Rather than guys like Mateo, Urias, O'hearn, Hays etc.

 

Those guys all suck NOW and won't be here in 5 years.  So why in the heck play them or have them on the team? 

 

Either go all in with the guys that you drafted and are doing well in AAA.....or fold.  But this in between stuff is not helping.

Dude its way to early to be in full panic mode, Ill cut it short all those guys suck what exactly has Ohearn done to suck, where do you suppose to play Norby Stowers and Mayo? Laughable

[Safelykept]

4 hours ago, ScGO's said:

The O's really missed on Montgomery in my opinion. He's already had TJS so I think he might be fairly durable moving forward. I thought he'd be a good investment on a 4 or 5 year deal for 85-125 million, he's left handed, and he has a ring. But to not make an offer when he ends up signing for 1 year 25?

I liked trading for Burnes, but its for 1 year and we (at least the fans) didn't forsee the Bradish and Means' situations. Losing both showed our depth really isn't there yet for SP

Also, long term, what is the plan for starting pitching? Immediate and future?

I see it currently as Burnes, Grayson, ______, ______, Kremer. I think Kremer will be fine: lots of weak hits and a wind assisted dinger; today wasn't as bad as it looked. I made a comment the other day that others didn't like: Kremer is a great #5 starter on a high caliber playoff contender.

Wells and Irvin make the bullpen better if we can replace them in the rotation.  If Means returns 1) how effective is he coming back from this injury compared to what Wells and Irvin bring and 2) no matter how he performs, he's only here for 1 more year. Even if Bradish returns, he's very likely to have TJS at some point in the next year or two (just my guess after hearing Elias talk speak on Bradish today and also considering the trends in injury/surgery among elite arms)

If Bradish doesn't return or Means is equal than or less than Irvin or Wells, how long does Elias wait to make a trade? When does he think Povich is ready? McDermott? Does he feel comfortable going to Rookies for pitching help especially if they aren't a Top 100 guy? We ain't got much at AAA.

Next year, as it stands, we have Bradish (maybe), Grayson, Kremer, Wells, Irvin, Povich, McDermott? In the past the Orioles don't spend money on FA starters. Still probably two seasons before we see results from Elias and Perez' efforts in the International market. We got some decent starter prospects scattered between Bowie and Aberdeen. But, worst case Scenario, we are looking at ______, Grayson, _______, _______, Kremer; we need to fill in the blanks effectively if we want to compete for a World Series in 2025

So what's the plan Mike?

John Means Also had TJS, so guess hes a lock to be durable going foward?

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, Safelykept said:

John Means Also had TJS, so guess hes a lock to be durable going foward?

Worked for Ohtani.

[Orioles0615]

The issue is the need help sooner rather than later and there is no immediate bandaids unless they call up Povich. Any trade isn't happening until July, and free agent scrap leftover will take a month to ramp up. So no matter what they are going to have to tread water until Bradish and Means comes back. So the guys they have need to get their act together. 

 

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Agree with everything that you wrote. Those guys for sure broke us out of our loser ways.  For that I thank them.

 

But we are not going to win a WS, or multiple WS, with those guys.   As hard as it is, sometimes you need to let go of the past to go ahead in the future.

I’m not in favor of playing formerly useful players past their shelf life, and I’m also not in favor of playing young guys just because they’re young.  I’m in favor of playing the best players we have, regardless of whether they’re old or young.  But those decisions shouldn’t and won’t be made on a hot or cold two weeks.  They’ll be made gradually over 162 games.  

[Just Regular]

Thursday's off day next week gives Hyde the option to reconnect Burnes and Grayson in Kansas CIty by skipping Irvin again.

At that point, the SP5 could get the Angels and Athletics in 2 of the 6 games preceding the Yankees series.    I'd guess if possible it might be nice to stay away from SP5 during that 4-game set.

On rotation now, that LAA-OAK 2-start week of April 22-28 would make Grayson the guy who misses the Yankees OPACY series.

[Matt Bennett]

14 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I am going to disagree.....for right now. 

 

If....BIG IF....both Means and Bradish pitch from May through the rest of the year than I am more than happy with that staff.  A top 4 of Burnes, G Rod, Means and Bradish is as good as any in baseball.  Assuming....again big IF....they all stay healthy.  Add in Kremer and that is a very solid 5.

 

I am more concerned about our run production.  If we are going to struggle, I would rather do so with AAA guys like Heston, Mayo, Stowers, and Norby.  Guys that will be here for the next 5 years and are an actual part of the future.  Rather than guys like Mateo, Urias, O'hearn, Hays etc.

 

Those guys all suck NOW and won't be here in 5 years.  So why in the heck play them or have them on the team? 

 

Either go all in with the guys that you drafted and are doing well in AAA.....or fold.  But this in between stuff is not helping.

O'Hearn has a 125 OPS+ with his time wearing an Orioles uniform

[Matt Bennett]

8 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I keep saying this over and over and over.  I said it last year in the contreversial "we will not win the WS" thread.

 

What is it about players like Urias and Mateo and Hays and even Mullins that makes you think they can help lead a team to a World Championship?

Seriously.  They are just guys.  In no way shape or form can you win it all with them.  So if you can't?  I would rather take my chances with the young guys with more potential who have a way higher ceiling. 

Mullins has a 113 OPS+ 

[RZNJ]

10 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If Irvin and/or Wells continue to look very poor, I expect the O's to call someone up for spot starts until Means/Bradish is ready.  Don't expect it to be Povich.  Very likely someone the O's could call up, have start and DFA w/o missing them.  Baumann might get a start too.  I hope you took a Tums before reading my post. 

Ha.  So the O’s are unhappy with Wells and Irvin and decide a pitcher who’ll they’ll DFA after a couple of starts will do better?   I fail to see the logic.